[jack.21]

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<font color='#0000FF'>Just voted on the pole by John Nortcliff on PADI vs BSAC - now as far as I am concerned we are all singing off pretty much the same song sheet, and I am far more inclined to look at a divers competancy in the water and experience than the training agency that taught them.

What does p**s me off tho' (and I am sure I will be slated for this comment) is when we have a diving 'incident' and people say:

'that doesn't or wouldn't happen to a BSAC diver as they get taught rescue skills from the off instead of doing the PADI route of paying shed loads of cash to get any type of Rescue training.'

Sorry for the contraversy peeps but I am sure many agree even if they don't say so in public.

Jack

 

[And]

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<font color='#000080'>Hi

If that were true then BSAC wouldn't need to publish an incidents report in which the majority of cases are BSAC divers as they are more inclined to report minor as well as major incidents due to the reporting procedure within the branches.

Sounds like you are being a little bit too sensitive mate or just listening to the wrong type of diver. Anyone who blames incidents on the agency is a bit suspect if you ask me. Divers are solely responsible for their own safety, no matter where they were trained, how, when or by whom. Its the instructors job to tell students that, not the agency.

Kindest Regards

Andy

 

[Diving Dude]

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l'm not even going to mention the Bsac crowbar course.........

WL, do they teach you the correct way to store a crowbar in the gue courses?  

 

[ANDY 64]

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<font color='#0000FF'>Crow bars,

Left side of main cylinder.......... crack bar,rigth side underneath main cylinder, selection of sockets in waist pocket....... home made 4 lb lump hammer on weight belt with 2 chisles inside the S/S hollow handle.
pop punch on handle of torch

 

[Mr T.]

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Quite Jack.

I was brought up on the PADI route (before switching to TDI) and hold the Rescue Diver (RD) ticket - and I agree with your statement. ALL divers should be taught the rudiments of Rescue Diving at an early stage (a la BSAC/ScotSAC); that said, we can only hope that ALL divers take an interest in and desire to learn how to save their fellow diver at an early stage.

We will never get away from the 'one's commercial; one's subs-based' committment of the two schools/agencies, so we have to hope the general chat amongst YD'ers and others prompts divers to take a step in to taking RD quals (regardless of school/agency) more serioulsy.

Dive safe all.

 

[And]

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Quote[/b] (diving dude @ Mar. 13 2004,00:29)]l'm not even going to mention the Bsac crowbar course.........

WL, do they teach you the correct way to store a crowbar in the gue courses?  

<font color='#000080'>Hi

Yes, we keep it in our dive bag

Andy

 

[louigi]

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<font color='#FF0000'>I've been trying to get Nortern diver to put a crow bar pocket on the leg of my dry suit
but they dont seem interested even when I asked if they'd put one on the other leg for the socket set.

Mind you I know know why people dive a wing and single. it's to give enough lift for all the equipment.  

Any way in this context it's not a crow bar it's a wrecking bar.
Purpose made for divers.  

 

[mobymark]

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Being a dive shop owner, we get divers from all agencies on holiday, and be they experienced or beginners, they can be good or a disaster in the water. So it does not depend on the Agency but the Instructor who taught them. Also the diver himself to continue to learn and experience. Some of the experience divers we get have no clue and are a danger in the water, so its not just the
beginners.

 

[John N]

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I put the poll up as a bit of fun but there is a serious side to this.

Here, we tend not to have the major slanging matches over training agency that we have seen elsewhere - it's kind of self-censorship.  I presume that's why 30% of voters were tutting at me for even setting up the poll.

Some people do have a tendency to start 'sniping' though.
Most often this is against PADI e.g. 'we had to give them more training as PADI is only for warm water' or 'it's not proper training because they haven't spent six months in the pool learning how to eat a three course meal under water'.

Mostly this comment is ill-informed and frankly, it's a little tiring.  The key question is when does a bit of 'your training is crap' turn into the PADI vs BSAC question?  Is it possible to talk reasonably about training issues?  Should we not mention it at all?

As for the rescue question, you can be a rescue diver with 14 open water dives if you like.  Is that early enough?  He'll have paid for three courses in quick succession, but then he had a choice didn't he?

 

[And]

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<font color='#000080'>

Quote[/b] (John Nortcliff @ Mar. 13 2004,10:37)]Mostly this comment is ill-informed and frankly, it's a little tiring.  

You should have a stint in the DIR forum

Andy

 

[Dominic]

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Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (diving dude @ Mar. 13 2004,00:29)
l'm not even going to mention the Bsac crowbar course.........

WL, do they teach you the correct way to store a crowbar in the gue courses?  

Hi

Yes, we keep it in our dive bag

Yeah, so it's ready to beat strokes about the head when they complain that the long hose might strangle you

 

[BSH]

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Quote[/b] (jack.21 @ Mar. 12 2004,23:47)]What does p**s me off tho' (and I am sure I will be slated for this comment) is when we have a diving 'incident' and people say:

'that doesn't or wouldn't happen to a BSAC diver as they get taught rescue skills from the off instead of doing the PADI route of paying shed loads of cash to get any type of Rescue training.'

Jack

<font color='#0000FF'>After 10 years in a BSAC club, joined a BSAC club because when I started diving I had not heard of PADI,  I have never heard anyone come out with that line.

Although I have not studied last years incident reports, there  probably is a majority of BSAC members, as most incidents are reported as a matter of course which is probably not true with some agencies.

And no I am not begin sensitive I couldn't care less who I dive with.  

Fiona

 

[louigi]

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<font color='#FF0000'>There is no best from either side but what is right for you at the time. yes I am a member of both sides and can see the merits of both and the shortfalls. I am still learning though I have learnt quite a bit but still got a long way to go.
So please all dive safe and remember we can all learn from each other.

 

[[email protected]]

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I am qualified by both and would defend both too. They both have a place, and suit different people for different reasons. I agree the instructors are the key to training and that agencies are something people get too worked up about. Suffice to say, ultimately, it is the individual diver who sets his/her standard and they should take pride in being competent, or shame in surviving in ignorant bliss. (Could this be narcosis?)

James  

 

[jack.21]

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<font color='#0000FF'>I knew there would be 2 sides to this statement when it was made, I am not saying that one is better than the other and one route is better than the other. Sure you can do back to back courses with PADI and get to level with very little diving experience under your belt.

I do still stand by my original statement: I will dive with anyone as long as they are competant in the water and have the experience to cope with the dive and conditions.

The club I set up with a friend of mine has divers from every conceivable training agency in it and we all have a laugh and some great dives. But there are still people that we come across, and there is one in our club, who thinks they are better than the rest of us because of their particular training agency.

Needless to say they don't get invited on our trips!!! Whether that is fair on not I leave for discussion. But it does still highlight the point that there are still some within our sport - albeit a very small minority - who try to drive that wedge between the agencies and the training given by them and their instructors (and their are good and bad instructors - but thats where forums like this are useful)

Jack

Know it, Live it, Love it