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Would the world be a better place without religion?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 61 68.5%
  • No.

    Votes: 28 31.5%
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Gizmo said:
you will be surprised just how many do want to stop and listen.
Actually no, I once stood and listened for a couple of minutes to some Jehovas (?) Witnesses... I just didn't realise it at the time! I was patiently listening trying to work out what they were selling, they offered me a leaflet explaining what they'd been going on about and it was only that that made me realise what they were talking about. Just bizarre! I think they use some kind of mental tricks to make people listen just to work out who they are :angel:
 

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Scuby said:
Of course Santa exists! Why else do we have a holiday on December 25th if its not to celebrate Santa's birthday? Although actually, there was a real Saint Nick wasn't there?
Saint Nicolas (Saint "Klaus" in German) was a rich German bloke that gave presents to poor kids.

Wouldn't that be nicer to tell kids instead of lying to them about some nonce that comes down the chimney.....

Astronomical records suggest that Jesus of Nazereth was born on (about) Oct 4th of 4BC.

I was born on 16th August. If you are unable to send a present a PayPal donation would be OK.....:D

Chris
 
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Mark W
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Christianity

A great segment on Wikipedia...;

As a noun, Christian is an appellation and moniker deriving from the appellation "Christ", which many people associate exclusively with Jesus of Nazareth. The first known usage of this term can be found in the New Testament of the Bible, in Acts 11:26: "The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch." (Gr. Χριστιανός and variant Χρηστιανός, Strong's G5546). The term was first used to denote those known or perceived to be disciples of Christ.
As an adjective, the term may describe an object associated with Christianity. For many this also means to be a member or adherent of one of the organized religious denominations of Christianity. The term Christian means "belonging to Christ" and is derived from the Greek noun Χριστός Khristós which means "anointed one," which is itself a translation of the Hebrew word Moshiach (Hebrew: משיח, also written "Messiah"), (and in Arabic it is pronounced Maseeh مسيح). According to the New Testament, those who followed Jesus as his disciples were first called Christians by those who did not share their faith, in the city of Antioch. Hebrew is the only known language to not call Christians "Christians" but "Nazarenes" (Hebrew: נוצרי Notzri), because Jesus was from the province of Nazareth, hence the name Jesus of Nazareth or ישוע הנצרת, Yeshua Ha-Natzerat in Hebrew). Also, because calling Christians "Christians" is like the Jews saying followers of the Messiah, and Jesus being the Messiah of the Jews is considered heresy, so Jews rarely, particularly Israelis never say Jesus Christ in Hebrew because that would be heresy to the most ultra-orthodox Jews. Israelis and others who speak Hebrew just say ישו (Yeshu in Hebrew) when referring to Jesus. Xian or Xtian is another word that has been used to describe Christians and is similar to using Xmas in place of Christmas; the X or Xt used as a contraction for "Christ" ("X" resembles the Greek letter Χ (Chi), the first letter of "Christ" in Greek (Χριστός [Christos]). Some Christians find these terms offensive and equate it to taking Christ out of the term.
The term "Christian" is used by various groups with diverse beliefs to describe themselves. Some people, including many born-again Christians, use a fairly specific definition of "Christian". They believe that in order to be a Christian, one must follow Jesus, and that the proof of this is found in agreeing to and following the doctrines set forth in their interpretation of the Bible.
Many Christians are grouped into ecclesial communities called denominations which are separated by certain aspects of their respective beliefs and theologies. The liturgical denominations, including Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy, Roman and Eastern Catholicism, Anglicanism, and Lutheranism, along with many constituent components of the reformed traditions of Presbyterianism, Methodism, Moravianism, et al., teach that the title Christian is honorificly bestowed upon those who have accepted the command of Jesus Christ (in Mark 8:34) to "take up your cross and follow me", and that the public mark of a Christian is to receive the sacrament of Baptism, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Many denominations advocate infant baptism, in addition to that of adult converts.
Others who refer to themselves as Christians require only that one believes that Jesus is the Son of God, that he died and was resurrected from the dead. Certain other denominations (The Church of Christ, International Churches of Christ, and the Independent Christian Churches) teach that the definition of a Christian is someone who has been baptized as a repenting adult. For them, adult baptism is the transition from non-Christian to Christian. These varying definitions arise from different biblical interpretations and differences regarding the authority of scripture in the bible in context with tradition.
A small but significant minority of ecclesiastical groups are often referred to as Christian, whose creeds consider Jesus to be theologically significant but not God. Movements along these lines include Jehovah's Witnesses, see also Nontrinitarianism.
A letter ascribed in the Augustan History to the Emperor Hadrian refers to the worship of Serapis by residents of Egypt who described themselves as Christians, and Christian worship by those claiming to worship Serapis:
The land of Egypt, the praises of which you have been recounting to me, my dear Servianus, I have found to be wholly light-minded, unstable, and blown about by every breath of rumour. There those who worship Serapis are, in fact, Christians, and those who call themselves bishops of Christ are, in fact, devotees of Serapis. (Augustan History, Firmus et al. 8)
 

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Scuby said:
Yes yes yes, but when was SANTA born? Thats what we're all concerned about!

:angel:
28 September

Chris
 

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Religion hasn't done all those nasty things throughout history, people have done the nasty things using religion as an excuse.

The basic moral rules set down by God in Christianity are quite clear:
No stealing
No murder
No lying
No jealousy
Treating other people as you treat yourself
No working 7 days a week
No adultry
Respect your parents
Love God
Don't let anything other than God take over as the centre of your life (e.g. money)

The world would be a better place if we all kept to these rules.
 

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Thats the problem, that list makes most organised religions look quite hypocritical....


ahar said:
Religion hasn't done all those nasty things throughout history, people have done the nasty things using religion as an excuse.

The basic moral rules set down by God in Christianity are quite clear:
No stealing
No murder
No lying
No jealousy
Treating other people as you treat yourself
No working 7 days a week
No adultry
Respect your parents
Love God
Don't let anything other than God take over as the centre of your life (e.g. money)

The world would be a better place if we all kept to these rules.
 

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Finless: You couldn't invent him...
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Discussion Starter · #108 ·
ahar said:
Religion hasn't done all those nasty things throughout history, people have done the nasty things using religion as an excuse.

The basic moral rules set down by God in Christianity are quite clear:
No stealing
No murder
No lying
No jealousy
Treating other people as you treat yourself
No working 7 days a week
No adultry
Respect your parents
Love God
Don't let anything other than God take over as the centre of your life (e.g. money)

The world would be a better place if we all kept to these rules.
What, and make diving the number two love of my life? Erm, oh yeah ...... SWMBO and then diving ......................?
 

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ahar said:
Religion hasn't done all those nasty things throughout history, people have done the nasty things using religion as an excuse.

The basic moral rules set down by God in Christianity are quite clear:
No stealing
No murder
No lying
No jealousy
Treating other people as you treat yourself
No working 7 days a week
No adultry
Respect your parents
Love God
Don't let anything other than God take over as the centre of your life (e.g. money)

The world would be a better place if we all kept to these rules.
I think someone needs to fax this list over to the Roman Catholic church. They seem to have got the list the allows all the naughty stuff by mistake.
 

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principia said:
Thats the problem, that list makes most organised religions look quite hypocritical....
That's the problem with people - the rules don't change, it's just that people aren't perfect. I haven't broken the murder or adultry ones, but I can't say that for the others at some time or other :(

All organised churches will do something wrong at some point, because they're run by people, and everyone inevitably does something wrong at some point. That doesn't condemn the religion though.
 

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chrisch said:
Saint Nicolas (Saint "Klaus" in German) was a rich German bloke that gave presents to poor kids.

Wouldn't that be nicer to tell kids instead of lying to them about some nonce that comes down the chimney.....

Astronomical records suggest that Jesus of Nazereth was born on (about) Oct 4th of 4BC.

I was born on 16th August. If you are unable to send a present a PayPal donation would be OK.....:D

Chris
I thought Santa was Turkish and came from Patara? I should know 'cos I was born on St Nicholas's Day, 6 December. I accept bankers drafts and cash too...
 

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Buoyant Babe said:
I thought Santa was Turkish and came from Patara? I should know 'cos I was born on St Nicholas's Day, 6 December. I accept bankers drafts and cash too...
St nic's day is 6/12 but he was born 28/9 (so I found on google..)

I've always believed he was German, but the same search suggests the majority view is Patara....

Either way the bloke is dead. Long gone. And sure as shit doesn't come down chimneys :D :D

Chris
 

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scubajay said:
I think someone needs to fax this list over to the Roman Catholic church. They seem to have got the list the allows all the naughty stuff by mistake.

would you care to back that statement up or are you just saying what comes into your head?
 

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ahar said:
No stealing
No murder
No lying
No jealousy
Treating other people as you treat yourself
No working 7 days a week
No adultry
Respect your parents
Love God
Don't let anything other than God take over as the centre of your life (e.g. money)

The world would be a better place if we all kept to these rules.
Well, I agree with most of those (as an atheist I wouldn't really go with the "Love God bit).

But I don't see how anybody can say

The basic moral rules set down by God in Christianity are quite clear
As far as I can see, the rules are very far from clear. I read Exodus once :). There are dozens and dozens of laws set down, only a few of which turn up in the so-called "Ten Commandments" list. There's all sorts of stuff about sacrificial blood offerings for example intermingled with the rest. Leviticus has the notorious verse about homosexuality, along with permission to own slaves (as long as they come from neighbouring nations;)). And of course, we all realise that eating shellfish is an abomination...

Also there's the "set down by God" bit. According to who? Not all Christians believe that the Bible is dictated by God directly, though some do. Is it the Papal Infallibility thing? And of course the Bible has been translated many times over the years, bits of it have come and gone according to the prevailing fashions and politics.

Exodus is actually a fantastic read. Lots of blood, adventure, blood, killing, blood, massacres, cult politics and more blood. Also, Jehova's Witnesses think more of Moses than they do of Jesus, another reason to read up on it if anybody fancies taking them on :). I was interested in the part where Moses tells his followers that God told him that only he was allowed to receive God's wisdom on the Mount. Handy ;) God tells Moses to exterminate (ethnically cleanse) all other tribes from the promised land, including women & children, and also to kill any Israelite who sleeps with somebody from another tribe - the Israelites must be kept pure you see. When Moses sees his followers worshipping idols, he kills about 30,000 of them :eek: And so on, but I digress.

Obviously I'm picking up on extreme examples here, I just question the idea that any religion can claim a monopoly on what constitutes morality. I had someone I thought was a friend tell me that it was impossible to live a moral life unless I believed in God! Seems to me that you have the root of the problem right there - the moment that any group of people start to believe that only they are allowed to see the truth, that's when the trouble starts.



Question for fundamentalists everywhere: Who would Jesus bomb?
 

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Lazlo said:
Question for fundamentalists everywhere: Who would Jesus bomb?
You know that there will be one of those little rubber bracelets with that on soon now, don't you? ;) WWJB

Something I can never get my head around is heaven and hell, and that, mostly, only true believers can get into heaven (or else why bother to worship?). This means that I must be going to hell, and yet people that I know who, I hope, care about me and are christians are not banging down my door and doing their utmost to save my soul.

I could get paranoid :D
 

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Lou said:
Something I can never get my head around is heaven and hell, and that, mostly, only true believers can get into heaven (or else why bother to worship?). This means that I must be going to hell, and yet people that I know who, I hope, care about me and are christians are not banging down my door and doing their utmost to save my soul.
i'm hoping theres a bit in the middle for 'not very naughty and wasn't always good' kind of a foyer for the undecided.
 

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Lou said:
Something I can never get my head around is heaven and hell, and that, mostly, only true believers can get into heaven (or else why bother to worship?). This means that I must be going to hell, and yet people that I know who, I hope, care about me and are christians are not banging down my door and doing their utmost to save my soul.
Not all Christians believe in Hell, rather more believe in Heaven, but not all. Depends on the demonination / interpretation etc.

The ones that scare me are the evangelicals who believe that unless you have been "saved" you are definitely going to Hell. :frown:

Gonna be quiet up there.....
 

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[pedant mode]

it wasn't set down to Christians

it was set down to Moses who was an Israelite ( Jewish)

[/Pedant mode]

Good rules to live by in general though.



ahar said:
Religion hasn't done all those nasty things throughout history, people have done the nasty things using religion as an excuse.

The basic moral rules set down by God in Christianity are quite clear:
No stealing
No murder
No lying
No jealousy
Treating other people as you treat yourself
No working 7 days a week
No adultry
Respect your parents
Love God
Don't let anything other than God take over as the centre of your life (e.g. money)

The world would be a better place if we all kept to these rules.
 
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