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Just not enough dive time.
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I was amongst the crowd as yesterdays events unfolded and although trained at work in cpr and defrib I wouldnt have a clue what to do underwater in the S&R situation. Now this may seem like penny pinching but I dont have the cash available to put Adam & I through an official Padi course and I dont see any point in paying through the nose just to have the ticket just to show you've done it.

I guess I'm not the only one who is strapped for cash, but I came up yesterday nowhere near my NDL  and with plenty of gas on my back, but would have been virtually useless. So is there anyway we (YD) can put together a 'rescue' course for those of us that havent a clue in what to do. I would be happy to help out in the cpr thing and even run through the defrib side of things, which to be honest doesnt actually require a working unit, unless someone can get hold of one, I'll see if I can borrow the one from work.
What I'm looking for is how to do a proper S&R, maybe at Stoney or Wraysbury.

Anyone else interested in giving or receiving a 'course', be great if we could make this a freebie. We would all understand that we would be acting as good samaritans therefore wouldnt be held liable if we only did our best. After all we might not be at Stoney when we were needed, and any S&R would be better than none.

Matt
 

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Not as tall in real life
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If any kind benefactor is willing to put a group through the training required I am more than willing to help out with being a victim.

Just one consideration Matt,  proof of rescue training is of benefit in these situations as well as moving up the ladder so a ticket or equivilent proof of training maybe beneficial.  In which case there maybe a cost for the admin side of things such as pic fees to PADI.  Should be minimal though.

Daz
 

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Daz,
     I don't think Matt's looking for a shiny wee card, more just to have half a clue what to actually do.

Peter
Taught Rescue from first qualification.
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Many of these courses is very dependent on the instructors (aren't they all?), I thought the Padi Rescue Course was by far the best course I've done being the one I learnt the most. What the course did to me was realise how important everyone should know hoe to do first aid, I can't believe this isn't being taught at schools. Since taking the Rescue Course I try to do a refresher from the local Red Cross every two years.
For Search  & Rescue a lot of practise helps. The problem is that you only have very few minutes to find the victim for him/her survive, that is if you can resucitate them in the first place.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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Mat

I dont know the official line on this because I have never done had formal training. However I have been shown what to do by a very experianced diver and this is how he did it.

In the case of Stony where the resident divers probably know every rock in the place this may not be necessary but the general principle is to start from a likley point of recovery and to not cover the same ground twice.

To acheive this you need a reel and a lot of line. Drop on the bottom / wreck tie off the line and if its a flat bottom like Stony you can work outward in ever increasing circles letting out a viz length amount of line at each pass. If its a wreck you have to lay a grid.

If working in a teem of two and you not on a wreck you can do it on a compus with one diver concentrating on the compus and one on the serch.  

ATB

Mark Chase
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
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What I was thinking of is something for a group of us, the pic card would be usefull and if the 'course' cost was that plus say petrol/entrance and a beer for the instructor then I'd hope a few of us that arent 'trained' would be up for it.
I'm not really fussed about the 'ticket' but I must admit I felt useless yesterday, I suspect I might not be alone as I know a lot of the 'new' guys on here are quite inexperienced and it seems a shame that finance might stop some of us doing the course when it might benefit someone else. Admittedly I am slightly biased as I have two to pay for.
Matt
 

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That's just a standard sweep search Mark. It's used to look for anything you're, err, looking for, be it a torch, wreck or missing diver. A standard sweep won't be much good either if you're looking somewhere with a current. Just take the last known where-abouts and start to fin downstream. Means you'll catch up with whatever is being swept.  

There's all sorts of other bits'n'pieces in recovering a diver that you need to know. Tilting their head back and shoving up into their diaphram(?) being the two that immediately come to mind. If you don't do these, the chances are you'll do more harm than good.

Then on top of that what to do on the surface. This is where a bit of debate comes into it. Do you start EAR immediately or do you assume they've not got a pulse and go straight to the shore and start CPR/EAR? Not quite made my mind up on that myself! Suspect it would be an "on the day" call.

Peter
 

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I've ran the BSAC O2 Administration course a few times and this covers rescue scenarios as well as the actual O2 administration but it's too much work for one instructor, if there's any other BSAC Ins who'd get involved we could run the non-BSAC-ers thru the course in an "unofficial" capacity. It's a fairly full day of lectures and practical work and we'd need several resusci-annie manikins
 

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Count me in to help. I teach SAA O2 Admin and Diver Rescue courses.

The ticket thing would be difficult to resolve as divers and instructors might be comming from different agencies but I'm more than happy to get involved in whatever we can put together.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (peter k @ Feb. 22 2004,13:37)]There's all sorts of other bits'n'pieces in recovering a diver that you need to know. Tilting their head back and shoving up into their diaphram(?) being the two that immediately come to mind. If you don't do these, the chances are you'll do more harm than good.

Peter
Sorry I missunderstood the question. I thaught Mat was refering to how to locate the object / diver. There will be two tasks here, serch and recovery and surface rescue. Obviously the surface team will carry out the CPR etc. untill they get dry side.

Getting the diver up and short term medical attention is covered by Rescue Diver course (But I thaught Matt had done that) Serch and recovery is a diferent ball game.

ATB

Mark Chase
 

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In all honesty what’s a bit of paper is you save someone’s life..  Is it an Insurance issue, I could understand if we were in the USA where one would get sued but does it matter in the uk?
I was thinking all the way home yesterday, how did Digger get her up so quick, did he ditch the weight belt, did he put him self at risk of a bend, was it luck that he found her these are things that to be honest have crossed my mind before but until yesterday seeing that poor girl (god rest her sole) never played a major role in my diving..  I would have questioned Digger however I felt it was not the time or the place as I think most of us thought.
Matt I think it a great idea and I’m in regardless of location and don’t mind putting a few quid in the pot..  I am also a battle field medic and in civvie street a First Aider, and don’t mind helping out with the CPR.
     

Sean
 

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Absolutey no offence intended to Matt or anybody else but isn't a matter of priorities? You go out and buy expensive bits of divegear but are not willing to pay for a RD course. The PADI Rescue Diver course is an excellent course and is not that expensive, at least not here. In addition to teaching you to rescue others, it'll make you a better, safer diver - improve your buoyancy skills etc. Every PADI should do the RD course, in my opinion. Not just to get the ticket but because you're not a proper diver until you've done it. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant but if you never do another course, do the RD course. It's far more important than any nitrox course, for example. OK, now flame me  
 

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John,

I for one will be ready with the fire extinguisher. As always spot on with the advice.

Cheers

Steve
 

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I've done the BSAC S&R course and i still wouldn't know how to conduct anything more complicated than a circular search, because i haven't had chance to practise the stuff i was taught. I'd be interested in coming and practising search techniques. Stoney was certainly an eye opener for a lot of people.
 

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Just not enough dive time.
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
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John
you are of course absolutely right (again) and I agree wholeheartedly, however, there is always a trade off between what kit you simply must have e.g. pony for own redundancy, winter regs to replace the summer ones you bought in error, a tank to replace the one you always borrow etc and what course to go on next comes further down the list of essentials. Many of the Padi courses are in my opinion a waste of time, RD isnt one of them. It isnt until something like yesterday happens that it brings into focus the need for some sort of rescue/recovery training. rather than say I'll do that next, when I can afford it, maybe later in the Summer or next year, we (YD) could act like a club in the Bsac sense and get the people untrained in these essentials up to speed and save someone. A lot of the people on here are 'clubless', so rely either on a Padi course or nothing. Like you I'm not having a pop, but yesterday I didnt hear a single person say they were going on an RD course next, maybe they were all at RD level anyway, I dont know, but I heard loads talking about new kit or deco procedures etc.

It would be nice if we didnt do the British thing and say its always been like that so we cant change it.

I think I'll put it up as a poll to guage people's thoughts

Matt
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>matt
there was a lot of bsac divers from yd at stoney yesterday who are rescue trained at every point in their training so u will find that most bsac divers are rescue trained
ps this is not a pop at anyone just saying there are different ways of doing things
cheers
dave
 

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DUE CEO, Booking agent, Coffee maker & Dogsbody...
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Guys

I would be happy to help out on this, and would suggest something along the lines of the BSAC Practical Rescue Management Course syllabus. There would i feel need to be a lot of practice on the Controlled Buoyant Lift and towing with AV (I am a bit similar to Peter on this and i know Steve W's thoughts from elswhere).

If people wanted to do the O2 Course i would be happy to split that with Steve, however we are a long way apart.

Steve - I think this could be sufficient reason to break our Stoney Vow


To try and do the lifts and recovery in less than a day will be pushing it to get it mastered. They are also skills that need lots of practice.

Search and Recovery i can also run but that needs really at least a full day depending on the depth of skills required. My personal recomendation would be to work on CBL and AV in the water.

Dive Safe

Paul
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Paul Oliver @ Feb. 22 2004,21:26)]Search and Recovery i can also run but that needs really at least a full day depending on the depth of skills required. My personal recomendation would be to work on CBL and AV in the water.
I'd reckon that's about right Paul. The rest can, within reason, be guessed at, but the CBL is probably where you could harm someone if you didn't know what you were doing, or supposed to do. If they do embolise on the way up then all the CPR/EAR in the world ain't going to do much to help the casualty.

Peter
 

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I'm already signed up for a rescue course later this year, but I would still be interested in doing anything that is set up - the more practice the better as far as I can see. Rescue skills are a massive gap in the training of PADI divers (e.g. AOWs like me) who have not progressed to the Rescue Diver course. Anything that helps me be a little less clueless is a good thing.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (tiewrapdiver @ Feb. 22 2004,20:26)]I've done the BSAC S&R course and i still wouldn't know how to conduct anything more complicated than a circular search, because i haven't had chance to practise the stuff i was taught.
What do you mean you've not had time to practice?  


Every dive in a place like Stoney etc is an ideal opportunity to practice skills etc.  
It takes very little to plan the practice period but you can benefit a great deal from it.

Sea dives can also present the opportunity too; especially if the skipper can't find the wreck (he knows who I mean) etc.  
 
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