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Rich D
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582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
BBC NEWS | England | Cornwall | Wreck safety probe after deaths

oh FFS the health and safety mentalists are at it now, while obvioulsy the loss of any diver in this way is tragic, we all know the risks of the sport we love.

I fail to see how an 'artificial reef' with so many areas sealed, and access points cut so regulary through the hull, can (in a diving context) be classed as dangerous. Yes, our sport carries risks, which we are all aware of, and accept each time we dive, but I fail to see where the Pollice carry any remitt to decide what is and is not safe for divers.:angry:
 

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Utrinque Paratus
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6,077 Posts
The way i see it is that any wreck has the ability to kill you even more so if your in the bridge smashing the crap out of the mounting bolts to the telegraph, and as divers who participate in this sport we all understand this. if your stupid enough to go off into a wreck without training or the proper gear, then it's your fault. There is no legal requirement to do this so why the police make a big thing of the wreck is beyond me what are they going to do station a officer on the buoy?

everyone knew that when the Scylla was put in Plymouth that diving deaths would go up, as more people dive it so the numbers of incidents goes up, it's just maths and there are countless numbers of problems on there that dont get a mention.

the ship was cut up with divers in mind and if lost in there you can place your hand on the bulkhead and follow along to an opening, all areas that had difficult/undivable sections were welded off however because they wanted a show for the cameras, some of these doors blew open exposing that area. and some will try and access it to there peril.

I parachute if accidents keep rising are they going to stop me getting on the plane NO as people we have to take responsibility for the things we do.

Graham
 

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Can`t remember Member
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210 Posts
Wrecks are not static, permanent structures. They change with time.
It may well be that due to the very openness of the ship that makes her so attractive to divers of all experience levels that there are levels of sediment deposits which require finning tecniques, buoyancy control and training well above the normal levels.
A safety revue a few years after her sinking and following a double tragedy makes perfect sense to me.

Just my tuppence worth, have a good weekend everybody, with more of this...
:sun:
than this...
:rain:
 

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Registered
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1,799 Posts
BBC NEWS | England | Cornwall | Wreck safety probe after deaths

oh FFS the health and safety mentalists are at it now, ......

.....I fail to see where the Pollice carry any remitt to decide what is and is not safe for divers.:angry:
Wrecks are not static, permanent structures. They change with time.
Rob is quite right of course that wrecks don't stay unchanged over time.

Presumably no-one is suggesting that the HSE should inspect all wrecks - so does the fact that the Scylla was sunk as an artificial reef make a difference?

In common sense terms I guess not. Except that someone took the decision to sink it, and where to sink it, and what safety measures to set up. So, if there's an incident, some of those decisions may be open to review.

Perhaps viewed in that light it doesn't seem so "mentalist"?
 

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Rich D
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582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
if they are so concerned, perhaps someone should put a stop to the dumping of cr&p in whitsand bay - i beleive the dump site is close to the scylla and JEL

BBC NEWS | England | Cornwall | Anger as harbour dredging resumes

granted wrecks do change over time - however I fail to see why this should stop diving on a particular site, when I dive I accept the responsibilty of taking that decision, and also the responsibilty if either I, my equipment or another factor fcuks up and the brown stuff hits the fan.
 

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Can`t remember Member
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210 Posts
The main difference for me between this and other wrecks is that it has been opened up intentionally with divers in mind.
 

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YDs Most Southerly Monkey
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6,434 Posts
BBC NEWS | England | Cornwall | Wreck safety probe after deaths

oh FFS the health and safety mentalists are at it now, while obvioulsy the loss of any diver in this way is tragic, we all know the risks of the sport we love.

I fail to see how an 'artificial reef' with so many areas sealed, and access points cut so regulary through the hull, can (in a diving context) be classed as dangerous. Yes, our sport carries risks, which we are all aware of, and accept each time we dive, but I fail to see where the Pollice carry any remitt to decide what is and is not safe for divers.:angry:
I completely agree. You pays yer money, you takes yer chances.

What's next, close the motorways to stop car accidents, perhaps bulldoze the Cairgorms in case soime poor bastard falls off or freezes to death, concrete over the Thames to stop people falling in? And WTF has it to do with the Police?
 

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YDs Most Southerly Monkey
Joined
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6,434 Posts
Wrecks are not static, permanent structures. They change with time.
It may well be that due to the very openness of the ship that makes her so attractive to divers of all experience levels that there are levels of sediment deposits which require finning tecniques, buoyancy control and training well above the normal levels.
A safety revue a few years after her sinking and following a double tragedy makes perfect sense to me.

Just my tuppence worth, have a good weekend everybody, with more of this...
:sun:
than this...
:rain:
Penetrate wrecks without proper training and you can die. Do it with proper training and you could still die, everyone who dives knows this.

We take responsibility for our own actions (these people were in their 40s), or is that becoming a foreign concept in Britain these days?
 

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Rich D
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582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Penetrate wrecks without proper training and you can die. Do it with proper training and you could still die, everyone who dives knows this.

We take responsibility for our own actions (these people were in their 40s), or is that becoming a foreign concept in Britain these days?
its all about accetance and management of risks - when I dive I accept an element of risk, and choose to manage that risk to best of by knowledge/abilities

however that risk is accepted - if it all goes pearshapped then that is my responsibility - not that of the Police, HSE, PADI the owners of the wreck or the government of the state that is called 'nanny'
 

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More yokel than local moi luvver
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1,280 Posts
If this is the start of a trend, then will the Kyarra be next, as there is unfortunately fatalities most dive seasons. I hope that common sense prevails and nothing happens to close the wreck to divers.

just my thoughts
 

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Rich D
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582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
QUITE a lot , actually until FOULPLAY has been ruled out and the cause of death has been established .
from bbc

'

Det Sgt Paul Cashman, who is leading the police investigation, said: "The wider picture will need to be looked at. "Parts of the Scylla may need to be looked at or in fact whether the Scylla itself is still to be considered a safe dive or whether certain levels of competencies need to be addressed if you are being considered safe to dive."

we are not talking about the investigation into the two deaths in the (tragic) case of this weekend, but on the general appraisal on the suitabilty of the wreck for diving....

and as for the certain competences - this is already inplace - we are all trained and as far as i am aware every agency drums into their training that you should be diving within you qualification AND experience level. If your not trained to penetrate a wreck you have no business inside it, and if you are its your own responsibility.

Yes I have been inside wrecks (although not further than I could see a way out) including the scylla - and no i'm not qulaified for it, although such dives were initially done when buddied with instructors, but ultimatley I can get all the cards I want - if something goes wrong, to me, in an overhead environment (even a virutal deco class ceilling) its my responsibility, and one which I accept when I go step off the boat.
 

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Bashing head against brick wall
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2,105 Posts
Having recently done my MOD1 there with Rich Stevenson I was impressed with how the wreck had been made safe for diving. It is a tragedy for those particular divers and their Families but I don't see why this artificial reef should be 'closed' to divers as a result of their misfortune.

Surely as trained divers we are responsible for our own safety and shouldn't push our levels of training without supervision, if that is the case in this particular incident.
 

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YDs Most Southerly Monkey
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6,434 Posts
Rich,,,, I wasn't a dig at you by any means .....

Just a case of knowing how thee systemworks and also being there and done that :D
I know that mate. I also know I have a bad habit of getting the bit between my teeth and need bringing back into line occasionally too...:embarassed:
 

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ego postulo urino
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3,325 Posts
No wreck and no dive are ever safe, they just have different levels of risk, as does the dive plan.

Unfortunately, statements like the wreck has been made safe for divers will entice divers who either don't possess the necessary skills or training. The wreck hasn't been made safe, it's just had some (perhaps many) of the hazards removed.

Even those that have dived for a long time and accumulated years of experience will be tested from time to time, especially when complacency sets in as it will now and again.....
 

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"we sit at the bar sipping ice and white Russian"
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408 Posts
strong currents and very poor vis pose a problem at times on the scylla.....and i think a lot of the poor vis is due to all the crap thats pumped out into whitsand bay......go down have a look around while on the line...if you dont like it "COME BACK UP TO THE SURAFCE".

the rails on the syclla around the upper deck are still in place most of the way around...so follow these.....you can always turn round and get back to the shot.

as we always keep drumming home to people...if you dont like it dont be to proud to abort a dive ...it could save your life...where ever you are diving.
 

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Registered
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494 Posts
Don't forget that news is reported only in a manner which will sell. Facts are used, not neccessarily correctly.

In the past we have seen reports on the Scylla which are very loosely accurate, all news agencies know that they can push a long way from the actual truth, with no or very little punishment.

So bare that in mind....... facts won't spoil a good story!
 
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