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I enjoyed a dive on the S.S.Bretagne surprisingly complete considering it sank in 1918 and the amount of diver traffic!
But what surprises me the most is that these popular wrecks do not have a permanent marker, we visited the wreck twice over bank holiday weekend and along with other boats took some time to locate the exact location, in fact the first two divers missed the wreck and had a wasted dive after two attempts!
But surely dropping shots frequently on to wrecks is damaging them and it would make far more sense to have permanent markers avoiding problems with location, damaging wrecks, and wasted dives!
I know the James Egan Lane has a marker in the summer but this is removed in the winter "but why?" (I'm talking about a secondary marker attached to the wreck)
Any thoughts or comments welcome !
 
G

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Well shots don't last forever as the weather removes them even in the absence of other factors.  Most hardboats will shot wrecks that they use regularly for ease but they have to keep replacing them, have done this for some skippers a few times.
As far as individuals doing it then apart from the cost ond hassle there is the added bonus of some torags stealing them for the rope and bouys

I had been considering shotting one or two of the local wrecks like the Madam Alice that the local hardboats don't and decided not to because of all this and the fact that the trawlers and ferries run them over regularly.
 

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Cost... who is going to pay?

Locally we have the Outer Mullberry. Selsey SAC years ago put a chain and yellow buoy on it. the damage done by the chain is signifcant - it has destroyed all but the metal reinforcing bars over a considerable area of the wreck. when I started my business I took over the upkeep of the Bouy and chain.
Replacement and repair costs me a couple of hundred a year as well as the time and fuel to undertake the maintenance. On regular occasions I am told by unknowing club boats that I can't moor up on the bouy I pay for as they were there first


This year we are putting a 1.5 tonne mooring block 5 meters away from the mullbery with a new chain and yellow bouy. (The whole job will cost about £500). The mooring block will have a large rope leading from it to the wreck and will be far enough away for the chain never to come into contact with the wreck and further damage it.


Given that there are 100 wrecks within 15 miles of selsey the cost of fitting permanent markers is a little more than significant! and remember that the deeper the wreck the more involved the job is and the more costly. Then of course you have to ask the MCA their opinion, I'm not sure that they would want hundreds of markers appearing all over the ocean


well thats my 10p worth anyway
 
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Most of the local boats don't run to chains and bouys, they seem to stick to milk cartons and manky three strand to reduce the nicking temptation
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>most permanant shots will be out of fishermens netting area's or they will simply cut them as there nets are often 3 miles wide and dont want them getting snagged.
we use a tiny marker about the size of a grapefruit and when the current runs it disappears into the depths and only pops at slack and is a good indicator of slack water as they can differ between neaps and springs.
the only chain we use is about 2 foot where it is actually attached to the wreck the rest is 12 mm nylon rope.
we attach a large buoy to it when we arrive to dive it and remove the buoy again before we leave.
we seldom tie of to the shot as it can cause a bouncing effect on the shot for divers to deal with and prevents others from getting close enought to drop in divers safely.

cheers
barrie
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (bang-on @ April 13 2004,16:19)]most permanant shots will be out of fishermens netting area's or they will simply cut them as there nets are often 3 miles wide and dont want them getting snagged.
we use a tiny marker about the size of a grapefruit and when the current runs it disappears into the depths and only pops at slack and is a good indicator of slack water as they can differ between neaps and springs.
the only chain we use is about 2 foot where it is actually attached to the wreck the rest is 12 mm nylon rope.
we attach a large buoy to it when we arrive to dive it and remove the buoy again before we leave.
we seldom tie of to the shot as it can cause a bouncing effect on the shot for divers to deal with and prevents others from getting close enought to drop in divers safely.

cheers
barrie
tried this method,

however, waiting around for the pill (thats what its called round here) to show on slack and then find that its gone is not fun. Everyones then rushing around to get a normal shot in and you end up missing or catching the end of slack. I have done it on a couplle of wrecks but am not a fan.... In this area we have a lot of pot fishermen who tend to haul anything on their patch that they see
 mostly resulting in a snapped shot
 

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Anglesey Charter boat Skipper
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divers tend to forget that they are not the only ones intrested in wrecks .
rod and line anglers like em too!
we can't leave any shots behind pellet bouy or jars on our patch as they always get cut off by the fishing charter boats which out number us about 15 to 1 !
it buggers em up drifting thru and over the top all the anglers loose everything on the down rope.
we always use a grapple never lets us down use boat to pull it out at the end.
lets face it with modern gps being as accurate as it is its not difficult
 
G

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Thats what I do, weighted grapnel and use the boat to pull it free by bending lightweight prongs. WASS GPS is now accurate enough to pick the bit of the wreck you want to dive now even on small wrecks.
In fact is is so accurate the last 6 times I did one of the local wrecks the shot was within 15ft of the same position every time and usually less than 6ft away. And thats on a 42m deep wreck.
Who need permanent shots
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>agree with problems of permanant shots being problematic our weekend to crosshaven,cork we used a 30 kg weight and grappel anchor thats left with a 30 kg lift back inflatted and the grappel tied up the shot,so its easy to pull up.
we tend to use the permanant shots on u-boats as they are quite difficult to hit when deeper than 60 mtrs and yes it is a pain when you drop a shot only to see the permanant shot pop up a minute later.
but that said its also part of diving and we all miss the wreck sometimes.

cheers
barrie
 
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We used to go the lifting bag route but on the deeper stuff it was always a pain sorting out who did what and when. Quite a few times the bag was left unfilled.
I now use a recovery gadget that I have to use the top bouy to recoer the shot. Clip to the boat and take up slack, pop off the shot and then welly away till the bouy runs to the end and sticks, flake into boat and stow, no effort
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Rubber Johnny @ April 13 2004,21:26)]We used to go the lifting bag route but on the deeper stuff it was always a pain sorting out who did what and when. Quite a few times the bag was left unfilled.
I now use a recovery gadget that I have to use the top bouy to recoer the shot. Clip to the boat and take up slack, pop off the shot and then welly away till the bouy runs to the end and sticks, flake into boat and stow, no effort
I've got this electric thing called a capstain - that work quite well
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Skipper @ April 13 2004,22:44)]I've got this electric thing called a capstain - that work quite well
skipper,
that sorta pisses on our strawberries mate!!

 


cheers
barrie
 

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Anglesey Charter boat Skipper
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ya gadjets called an alderney rig rubber johnny and has been around since the ark was first launched,cracking system .
some of the charter boats round here still use it to haul  anchor cos they're to tight to buy a winch!
we mass produce the ol grapples out of scaffold tube filled with 2 old sash window weights topped off with 8 mm round bar which bends out a treat with 11 tons of boat  on it
we always shot each wreck the same pick up numbers work out tide and drift drop up tide and drift/drag into em.
when tide turns they come out a treat .
as for the damage they do to wrecks i think is nowt compared to what a large trawler does when they get fast on one.
hard to believe in this electronic wonder land that trawlers still hit charted wrecks we had 2 trawlers manage it on 2 different charted  wrecks off here last year!
happy hunting
 
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It is actually a bit of climbing kit modified slightly, works really well. My grapnel is a 2' long piece of 2" bar with four prongs and a loop with 3 metres of chain attached, goes down fast  and hooks a treat.
 I did know someone who made one of SS but used tube and welded caps on the end, boy was he embarassed when he chuck it in and it FLOATED!
 

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Hi all,

We sometimes use an Aldernay Rig off our Rhibs, but generally recover it with a lifting bag. The same system works for getting a Rhib up a slippery slip way on occasion if they have a rung at the top.

Dive Safe

Paul
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>I'm sorry but what's with people over your way?

Over here it's unheard of anyone stealing anyones buoys. If it's gone it's probably because the line got too rotten or the buoy was punctuated.
Or someone didn't learn their knots. Most divers in Norway apparently left the Boy Scouts/Girl Guides once they hit puberty...

uh... I just wanted to post. Didn't really have much to say.

Kyrre
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Norseman @ April 14 2004,23:32)]I'm sorry but what's with people over your way?

Over here it's unheard of anyone stealing anyones buoys. If it's gone it's probably because the line got too rotten or the buoy was punctuated.
Yep I'm surprised that people might pinch them, there's plenty of lobster buoys on quality rope and you don't hear of them being pinched !
 
G

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You do, mate of mine had 50 pots stolen last year although he did manage to get them all back. It is a regular occurence. They are also trawled up regularly by the dredgers.
Plus I know of some folk that have decided after diving a wreck that the line and bouy would be better used for their boat than just sitting around doing nothing

 In saying that most of the missing lines are due to "natural wastage" and weather.
 
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