[peter k]

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Why don't the various training agencies teach squeebs, sorry trainees, to frog kick from the word go. Not only from a personal point of view that I'm sick of following divers about that have kicked up shitloads of silt(and I mean many so-called experienced divers as well as trainees) but your control in turning and balance is so much better. By the time many divers are doing wreck penetrations the flutter kick is so ingrained they can't change to a frog kick. If it was taught from scratch this problem would be eliminated. Just a personal gripe that's all.
Peter

 

[Dr Stevil]

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Never felt the need to frog kick in my life, and with my split fins apparently its not practical, plus they aren't supposed to kick up as much silt.

Plus I've never heard any other instructors encouraging the use of frog kicks at any course or training event

In fact the only times I've seen frog kicking is in the States and diving with some of the dir-oriented folk here.
It's certainly not that common, IME
Chee-az
steve

 

[andy2tanx]

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Steve, I used the frog kick with some twin jets and it worked fibe.

 

[andy2tanx]

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Course now i got my jet fins i will do even betterererer...

 

[peter k]

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I do it and various members of my club do it. It was a revelation in control when I started it, it just took a bit of perseverance to accustom my legs to the change. Now when I wreck dive if the guy I'm buddied with doesn't then I prefer to lead so I don't get lost in his/her silt. You maybe don't feel the need to because you can't see behind you. It's the only kick I do now whether I'm wreck diving or just pootling about.
FROG KICKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE AND WE'LL ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO SEE WHERE WE'RE GOING!!!!!!!(And find our way back out)
Peter

 

[Ian Murray]

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Quote: from Steve W on 5:16 pm on Jan. 28, 2003
Never felt the need to frog kick in my life, and with my split fins apparently its not practical, plus they aren't supposed to kick up as much silt.

Plus I've never heard any other instructors encouraging the use of frog kicks at any course or training event

It's certainly not that common, IME
............................................................................

I agree that it's not that common.  But maybe it should be. I found that I started using the frogkick a few years ago as being quite a strong breaststroke swimmer It felt more natural that the flutter kick. If you modify it you can also get greater close control for those tight manouvers and for camera work it's very stabilising. I also find it less tiring as you can use the kick and glide to get a bit of distance.

I think that most people are taught the flutter kick firstly and then just don't ever think of using any other method. I also think that not many people ever look behind them and see the trail of silt that they've kicked up so they're never any the wiser.

 

[Gavin Yates]

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There's room for both techniques.

The modified (or short flutter) is fine for silted areas - body position is more important than stroke length. Feet should be higher than the head (something that not all drysuit users are happy with) Keep your feet away from the bottom - fin gently and you'll kick up not a lot.

Frog kick is great for swimming in low current too because you can just kick and glide rather than constantly working. It's not useful in swimming into tough currents because of the stop/start nature of the stroke.

I'd say use both techniques but get your body position and trim right and you'll get the most power out of every kick.

 

[peter k]

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Ahh see Steve W, We are all frogkicking out the woodwork now, aren't we.:wink:
Peter

 

[Davey Willo]

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Peter I couldn't agree more and was voicing those very same comments to Andy Hayhurst a little while back after Bren and I were moving along the bottom of Cape one day, Bren was trying out his new rig, and I was following along behind just monitoring his progress, we were both gently frogging it along in excellent visibility when in the opposite direction came a group of divers who were using the flutter kick.. the excellent viz allowed me to see what looked like a roadrunner type cloud trail behind them, but massive... these divers were about a meter above the bottom the same as BT and myself and destroyed the viz behind them.. I immediately looked back along my belly and was well chuffed to see that we hadn't left a mark behind us.

Another dive at the Cape I was following SteveyW and we were a few metres above the bottom and yet I was suprised to see the bottom moving from the down draft of Steves fins using the flutter kick... As is said it's no anyones fault as it's the kick thats taught to everyone, but if more and more divers learned to frogkick most of the time you would have a lot less viz degradation during a diving day at say Stoney or other inland sites...

It's a great kick, I still haven't got it down pat yet but I use it as much as I can.

regards
Dave.

 

[And]

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Hi

I first saw the frog kick in the red sea last April. So much more relaxing. Started practising straightaway and now unless I'm in a REAL hurry then I don't use the flutter kick ever. I too am a strong breastroke swimmer and thats probably why I like it so much.

In Stoney on Sunday we went to 35m and the vis was great as not many people go there but very soft sand. My buddy wears Mares Avantis and he was two metres off bottom but still left a massive cloud behind him.

I agree it should be taught straightaway.

WL

 

[Jay]

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Me too!

 

[Rob Evans]

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I've been 'frogging' for a good while now - what I've noticed more than anything else is the difference it makes to your fin choice.  I've tried my style of finning (ambling along, frog mostly but often just waving tips of the fins around to provide easy forward motion without shitting up whoever's behind me) with Force Fins, Force Fins Pro -or something, any number of split fins.  None of them work as well for just general wandering about as my trusty and well scabby Scubapro Veloces.

Do any of these new Gucci split fins jobs do 'bimble mode'?

 

[Andy Phillips]

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Hi

I read this and pondered, was talking about this over the weekend, for those that think frog kicking is rare, most of the people I dive with do this. For myself, I do a kind of fin wiggle, in fact I have often wondered how I acheive any form of forward motion at all since I have decided that any physical effort whilst underwater is against all diving principles and practices.

Andrew

 

[Scuba1]

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Just think ahead mate
But I use the frog kick most of the time to . I use IDEA3 fins but have to start looking for some others as they are getting on a bit and I can`t get them here any more.

 

[Lou]

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I almost always use frog kick and pretty much always have as I quickly discovered that flutter was for me.  To go fast i do full frog, to bimble I kind of just rotate my ankles to swish my fins together.

My wetsuit fins are Idea3 and I loved them, when I went to drysuit I had to buy new fins and went with Quattros because of their good rep.  I decided against split fins immediately because they were designed to be used with a flutter kick!

Frog kick is the future!!  Has to be good otherwise why would frogs do it?

 

[John Gulliver]

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I think it's a case of horses for courses. I always use Lou's "swish your fins together" technique (not the full frog kick, as even that leads to quite a lot movement in the water, in my experience) on coral reefs or on silty bottoms but, as already pointed out, in a strong current the flutter kick is the only one that will really work, at least for me.

 

[Lou]

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That's true john.  I guess because only flutter provides contant forward force, frog giving an intermittent thrust only.

But then if there is alot of current I want to be going with it rather than against it anyway!

 

[Dominic]

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I don't know about the frog kick specifically.. but teaching the different fin strokes in general would be a good move.
BSAC only teaches one, the scissor kick, and that is THE way you should fin. OK, it's an effective stroke and helps novices break bad habits, but it's far from the one and only fin technique.
You'd think in British waters, they'd be encouraging the use of fin strokes that don't kick up the silt...

 

[John Gulliver]

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"But then if there is a lot of current I want to be going with it rather than against it anyway! "
So do I, Lou, but you don't always get a choice.

 

[Steve Summers]

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Hi All,
a couple of years ago I bought a pair of force fins and found with those that if you scissor kick it stirs the silt even from a considerable distance, but a gentle flutter and glide allows me to keep up with most divers with no problems.

safe diving,
Steve.