Should we need insurance to cover rescue costs and recompression?
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<font color='#F52887'>YES! I have DAN cover, and I think everyone should have similar cover. After all, in the event of something going tits up it is better to have that backup for treatment and also they have a non emergency medical line to contact with any diving related questions. Well worth it, IMHO.
<font color='#F52887'>YES! I have DAN cover, and I think everyone should have similar cover. After all, in the event of something going tits up it is better to have that backup for treatment and also they have a non emergency medical line to contact with any diving related questions. Well worth it, IMHO.
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It's an insurance company we're talking about. They'll have a perfectly good excuse not to pay out. When somebody decides that divers should pay for their treatment/ rescue that'll be the time to think about insurance. You already pay into a system to keep you alive. If you want to throw more money away every month, remortgage and build an extension with a compressor in it.
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It's an insurance company we're talking about. They'll have a perfectly good excuse not to pay out. When somebody decides that divers should pay for their treatment/ rescue that'll be the time to think about insurance. You already pay into a system to keep you alive. If you want to throw more money away every month, remortgage and build an extension with a compressor in it.
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Yuo cant single out divers. The whole sea going crowd would have to contribute form sailing clubs, fishing clubs to sedo pilots. Air sea rescue costs a lot too. Then there are land bassed sports. Somebody breaking their neck playing rugby will cost more than someone getting a DCI hit. Private medical is an enevitabuility. Sooner or later we will all have to go private just like pensions.
Mark chase
Yuo cant single out divers. The whole sea going crowd would have to contribute form sailing clubs, fishing clubs to sedo pilots. Air sea rescue costs a lot too. Then there are land bassed sports. Somebody breaking their neck playing rugby will cost more than someone getting a DCI hit. Private medical is an enevitabuility. Sooner or later we will all have to go private just like pensions.
Mark chase
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<font color='#0000FF'>I voted YES,
I feel that and waterbourne user should have a good insurance behind them to cover any incident.
I don't think it's right , that a club dive boat that loses a pair of divers and is broken down , should put £ 20 in the lifeboat box . The insurance company that covers that club should pay for all expenses.
Same goes for yachtsman down to canoists.
Example. A offshore lifeboat burning X amount of fuel, a seaking costing £ 3,500 an hour....then the costs of transport to chambers and the use of chamber and staff . someone should pay for this ,,,,,, why not the insurance company........
Just my thoughts .
Andy
<font color='#0000FF'>I voted YES,
I feel that and waterbourne user should have a good insurance behind them to cover any incident.
I don't think it's right , that a club dive boat that loses a pair of divers and is broken down , should put £ 20 in the lifeboat box . The insurance company that covers that club should pay for all expenses.
Same goes for yachtsman down to canoists.
Example. A offshore lifeboat burning X amount of fuel, a seaking costing £ 3,500 an hour....then the costs of transport to chambers and the use of chamber and staff . someone should pay for this ,,,,,, why not the insurance company........
Just my thoughts .
Andy
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<font color='#728FCE'>I have DAN Professional Insurance, it works. Paid $2.500 plus other expences when I broke a bone in my hand setting an anchour. It costs £140 for the year, but they offer cheaper options if you are not an instructor.
It also supports research in to medical issues related to diving.
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<font color='#728FCE'>I have DAN Professional Insurance, it works. Paid $2.500 plus other expences when I broke a bone in my hand setting an anchour. It costs £140 for the year, but they offer cheaper options if you are not an instructor.
It also supports research in to medical issues related to diving.
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What would be the insurance premiums for someone who through no fault of their own had a bend or diving incident? If youre the unfortunate victim of a hit you could find yourself in the position that you couldn't afford the revised premium?.
I can't see insurance companies keeping the premiums down.
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Depends on the situation are we advocating compulsory Insurance for rescue treatment costs?[b said:
What would be the insurance premiums for someone who through no fault of their own had a bend or diving incident? If youre the unfortunate victim of a hit you could find yourself in the position that you couldn't afford the revised premium?.
I can't see insurance companies keeping the premiums down.
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As regards recompression treatment, somebody stated on this or "the other" forum that all chamber treatment in the UK is free under the NHS, even to non-British subjects. If that is correct, you don't need insurance for that bit. The taxpayers foot the bill.
PS Here in Sweden, the taxpayers foot the bill for most of the costs and our home-owner's insurance covers the rest.
As regards recompression treatment, somebody stated on this or "the other" forum that all chamber treatment in the UK is free under the NHS, even to non-British subjects. If that is correct, you don't need insurance for that bit. The taxpayers foot the bill.
PS Here in Sweden, the taxpayers foot the bill for most of the costs and our home-owner's insurance covers the rest.
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I think it appropriate for all boat users to have 3rd party insurance.
However when it comes to rescue etc. we already pay this in taxes, apart from the RNLI, which now cost £300,000 a day to run. So a Seaking costs £3,500/hour to run. Does it cost this when on exercise, as well as on rescue. I would say it would cost around the same. If the military helicopters were not rescuing, they would have to exercise more often. I think most of the exercise is to be able to rescue in milary operations. The civilian use is a benefit which we have already paid for. A similar argument could be applied to the Coastguard. Is rescue the only thing the choppers do? (thinking slick spotting etc.)
Now the RNLI is tricky situation. They are fiercely independant and I'm not sure what they think of insurance paying for costs. As the charity income is reducing, there could be an option here, but it could be a slippery slope to the collapse of the RNLI as we know it. Don't know. Nearly half of RNLI rescues are for pleasure craft. Some will be RNLI members, some not. What would the membership be for, if they also have to pay insurance anyway? How would a premium be calculated? Size, time/distance out at sea, value, no of people on board?
There is talk of charging small boats for light fees, I wonder what will happen to the cash if this goes ahead.
13% of rescues are to commercials, who would likely be very against further premiums. Like most of us, we don't like spending money when some tells us we must. The decline in car owners having insurance could be a good indicator of just how many might pay such new premiums.
I vote NO
Adrian
Hmm, a communist advocating the compuslory handing over of money to a capitalist company[b said:
I think it appropriate for all boat users to have 3rd party insurance.
However when it comes to rescue etc. we already pay this in taxes, apart from the RNLI, which now cost £300,000 a day to run. So a Seaking costs £3,500/hour to run. Does it cost this when on exercise, as well as on rescue. I would say it would cost around the same. If the military helicopters were not rescuing, they would have to exercise more often. I think most of the exercise is to be able to rescue in milary operations. The civilian use is a benefit which we have already paid for. A similar argument could be applied to the Coastguard. Is rescue the only thing the choppers do? (thinking slick spotting etc.)
Now the RNLI is tricky situation. They are fiercely independant and I'm not sure what they think of insurance paying for costs. As the charity income is reducing, there could be an option here, but it could be a slippery slope to the collapse of the RNLI as we know it. Don't know. Nearly half of RNLI rescues are for pleasure craft. Some will be RNLI members, some not. What would the membership be for, if they also have to pay insurance anyway? How would a premium be calculated? Size, time/distance out at sea, value, no of people on board?
There is talk of charging small boats for light fees, I wonder what will happen to the cash if this goes ahead.
13% of rescues are to commercials, who would likely be very against further premiums. Like most of us, we don't like spending money when some tells us we must. The decline in car owners having insurance could be a good indicator of just how many might pay such new premiums.
I vote NO
Adrian
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No, definatly not. This country is too damn expensive as it is, and insurance companies are some of the biggest robbers
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This is a very expensive sport that many struggle to find the money for, i am totally against anything that makes it more so.
Many occasional divers would probably pack it up, and that would be very bad.
Just my thoughts though
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Paul
No, definatly not. This country is too damn expensive as it is, and insurance companies are some of the biggest robbers
This is a very expensive sport that many struggle to find the money for, i am totally against anything that makes it more so.
Many occasional divers would probably pack it up, and that would be very bad.
Just my thoughts though
Paul
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How much do you think it costs to send out a sea king, transfer to a ambulance and then carry out a table 6 recompresion??
Short answer A LOT
There are how many ACTIVE divers in the UK
I would guess 25,000 that actualy UK dive on a regular basis. So How many DCI incidents and rescue incidents are there a year multiply that by the cost per rescue, add 65% for administration costs and a further groas 50% for profit and then devide that into your 25,000 divers.
I think you might come up with more than $25 (£18)
Just a thaught
Mark Chase
Your dreaming M8[b said:
How much do you think it costs to send out a sea king, transfer to a ambulance and then carry out a table 6 recompresion??
Short answer A LOT
There are how many ACTIVE divers in the UK
I would guess 25,000 that actualy UK dive on a regular basis. So How many DCI incidents and rescue incidents are there a year multiply that by the cost per rescue, add 65% for administration costs and a further groas 50% for profit and then devide that into your 25,000 divers.
I think you might come up with more than $25 (£18)
Just a thaught
Mark Chase
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<font color='#810541'>Mark, I think that fee of $25 will be per dive trip. When in Thailand I think the compulsory insurance was about £5 per trip, two tank boat dive.
Could be wrong of course, it has been known.
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<font color='#810541'>Mark, I think that fee of $25 will be per dive trip. When in Thailand I think the compulsory insurance was about £5 per trip, two tank boat dive.
Could be wrong of course, it has been known.
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Anyway, i never said, or asked if divers should get billed for treatment and rescue, only if they should be required to have insurance.
If we all had to pay in the region of twenty quid, would it be the end of the world. It seems to work fine in Israel, everyone pays, even instructors. It could help hyperbaric medicine, as we, through our clubs/agencies, would be in a better position to press for more training in the NHS. This might help to stop divers arriving at A&E units with suspected DCS and being met with staff that may know next to nothing about the "bends"
BSAC has a membership of 45,000, SAA around 6,000, SSAC 1,900 and PADI trained in the region of 150,000 divers in the UK between 1996 and end 2001. i is not important how often divers dive, only if they dive in the UK.[b said:
Anyway, i never said, or asked if divers should get billed for treatment and rescue, only if they should be required to have insurance.
If we all had to pay in the region of twenty quid, would it be the end of the world. It seems to work fine in Israel, everyone pays, even instructors. It could help hyperbaric medicine, as we, through our clubs/agencies, would be in a better position to press for more training in the NHS. This might help to stop divers arriving at A&E units with suspected DCS and being met with staff that may know next to nothing about the "bends"
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Are we all sitting comfortably??
Then here's the news.....
You're on a dive; it's going great; you're thoroughly enjoying yourself; something (I don't care what - and neither should you) goes wrong; you end up [for reasons you'll be lucky enough to debate later] piling skywards/following the bubbles at knots/going surface/topside speedy-styleee....
OK, you know (if you're still conscious) that 'something' has gone wrong and that you need God's-own-share of help: do you care whether it cost you big bucks pre or post dive gig?? Err...NO! You give a shit! I think we can agree that the man/woman in trouble will quite happily get out his/her cheque-book/credit card and write out the required amount! No question. Amazing what clarity of mind we acquire post-event! When if we'd scored the relevant insurance (pre-gig), then we'd know that we had chamber, dive-ops-Doc, repatriation etc. all squared away before we set off for the dive holiday.
Diving insurance is not just like normal 'I lost my luggage and my flight was delayed...' cover. It should [read the fine print] encompass everything that's gonna get you home (doctors, chamber, helo-ride etc.) Why would anyone want to try and 'get a better price' for this kind of gig? How much is your life worth? We're not talking commodity items (camera - regardless of the pics you caught in/on it; clothes; dive kit kit; yada-yada-yada..) here!! What is lost is lost or can be replaced - except your life.
The rest can be replaced or remembered. I'd much rather remember dates, facts and people's expressions; I'd much rather not be remembered....
Safe diving all - always.
Are we all sitting comfortably??
Then here's the news.....
You're on a dive; it's going great; you're thoroughly enjoying yourself; something (I don't care what - and neither should you) goes wrong; you end up [for reasons you'll be lucky enough to debate later] piling skywards/following the bubbles at knots/going surface/topside speedy-styleee....
OK, you know (if you're still conscious) that 'something' has gone wrong and that you need God's-own-share of help: do you care whether it cost you big bucks pre or post dive gig?? Err...NO! You give a shit! I think we can agree that the man/woman in trouble will quite happily get out his/her cheque-book/credit card and write out the required amount! No question. Amazing what clarity of mind we acquire post-event! When if we'd scored the relevant insurance (pre-gig), then we'd know that we had chamber, dive-ops-Doc, repatriation etc. all squared away before we set off for the dive holiday.
Diving insurance is not just like normal 'I lost my luggage and my flight was delayed...' cover. It should [read the fine print] encompass everything that's gonna get you home (doctors, chamber, helo-ride etc.) Why would anyone want to try and 'get a better price' for this kind of gig? How much is your life worth? We're not talking commodity items (camera - regardless of the pics you caught in/on it; clothes; dive kit kit; yada-yada-yada..) here!! What is lost is lost or can be replaced - except your life.
The rest can be replaced or remembered. I'd much rather remember dates, facts and people's expressions; I'd much rather not be remembered....
Safe diving all - always.
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<font color='#810541'>Bren,
not sure I understood what you are arguing for - against insurance or for it?
I'd be in favour of it in general except for the fact that insurance companies may try to weasel out of paying up.
There's an argument that insurance can be a bad thing in certain situations; I suppose the argument would be something like "I can overrun my bottom time and miss deco stops, if I feel anything afterwards I'll phone dial-a-chamber and get DUPA to pay for my helicopter ride".
Then you get into arguments that are subjective; perhaps the insurance will only pay up if you don't do anything stupid like the above. What do you do if one of a significant life-pair buddy team stays down too long to try and rescue the other? "You broke the rules, no treatment for you, matey boy". You can play the scenario out, explaining to their children, mummy isn't coming back and daddy is fubar (or vice versa).
What about if one buddy is insured, the other isn't? Do we leave bent diver 1 by the quayside waiting for someone with a chequebook to take pity whilst bent diver 2 gets a chopper ride?
It'd only work if everyone had insurance, as we are all supposed to do for driving a car on UK roads. We keep hearing how our premiums are being pushed up to pay for non-insured drivers; would the same be true for uninsured divers? Everyone (I'm sure there are exceptions) pays their national insurance premiums, supposedly towards the upkeep on the NHS, therefore everyone gets treated (again, there are exceptions, and if they are any kind of pitiful story - or can be illustrated with a scantily clad attarctive lady - then our wonderful meejah highlight them for us).
Oooh, must stop myself before I get all political and bemoan the mismanagement of the NHS or something.
Andy (sitting on the fence so long the splinters have splinters)
<font color='#810541'>Bren,
not sure I understood what you are arguing for - against insurance or for it?
I'd be in favour of it in general except for the fact that insurance companies may try to weasel out of paying up.
There's an argument that insurance can be a bad thing in certain situations; I suppose the argument would be something like "I can overrun my bottom time and miss deco stops, if I feel anything afterwards I'll phone dial-a-chamber and get DUPA to pay for my helicopter ride".
Then you get into arguments that are subjective; perhaps the insurance will only pay up if you don't do anything stupid like the above. What do you do if one of a significant life-pair buddy team stays down too long to try and rescue the other? "You broke the rules, no treatment for you, matey boy". You can play the scenario out, explaining to their children, mummy isn't coming back and daddy is fubar (or vice versa).
What about if one buddy is insured, the other isn't? Do we leave bent diver 1 by the quayside waiting for someone with a chequebook to take pity whilst bent diver 2 gets a chopper ride?
It'd only work if everyone had insurance, as we are all supposed to do for driving a car on UK roads. We keep hearing how our premiums are being pushed up to pay for non-insured drivers; would the same be true for uninsured divers? Everyone (I'm sure there are exceptions) pays their national insurance premiums, supposedly towards the upkeep on the NHS, therefore everyone gets treated (again, there are exceptions, and if they are any kind of pitiful story - or can be illustrated with a scantily clad attarctive lady - then our wonderful meejah highlight them for us).
Oooh, must stop myself before I get all political and bemoan the mismanagement of the NHS or something.
Andy (sitting on the fence so long the splinters have splinters)
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No.
It's the thin end of the wedge scenario. If you start charging one recreational group for emergency treatment you have to charge them all.
Sailors? maybe, horse riders (most intensive care head injuries from recreational sources), ok then why not, a kid running his skate board off the pavement and under a bus, there's no difference now is there - it's his hobby, airlifting a walker off the beach path with a broken leg ? football player etc etc
I mean, where would it stop.
No.
It's the thin end of the wedge scenario. If you start charging one recreational group for emergency treatment you have to charge them all.
Sailors? maybe, horse riders (most intensive care head injuries from recreational sources), ok then why not, a kid running his skate board off the pavement and under a bus, there's no difference now is there - it's his hobby, airlifting a walker off the beach path with a broken leg ? football player etc etc
I mean, where would it stop.
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Bren
I *think* we are talking UK diving, not holiday diving. Holiday diving we know we need insurance for unless we are complete muppets. If we intend to dive then this has to include a good level of specialist cover that will get us rescued, treated and home.
Whilst diving at home, however, we will get rescued, treated and home without insurance so why get it? There is no-one for the insurers to pay so they would get a lovely deal!
The insurance we can get is equipment and third-party. These are not really dive insurances, they just happen to cover us as divers.
I believe that we should not be discriminated against as divers, and be required to carry insurance whilst any old Tom, Dick or Harriet can take their speedboat out with no safety equipment, and little Toby can play with the family's jetski etc.
However I also don't want to argue for tighter legislation.
I fully expect that we shall be forced to carry insurance in due time, and then I will.
Lou
Bren
I *think* we are talking UK diving, not holiday diving. Holiday diving we know we need insurance for unless we are complete muppets. If we intend to dive then this has to include a good level of specialist cover that will get us rescued, treated and home.
Whilst diving at home, however, we will get rescued, treated and home without insurance so why get it? There is no-one for the insurers to pay so they would get a lovely deal!
The insurance we can get is equipment and third-party. These are not really dive insurances, they just happen to cover us as divers.
I believe that we should not be discriminated against as divers, and be required to carry insurance whilst any old Tom, Dick or Harriet can take their speedboat out with no safety equipment, and little Toby can play with the family's jetski etc.
However I also don't want to argue for tighter legislation.
I fully expect that we shall be forced to carry insurance in due time, and then I will.
Lou
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<font color='#0000FF'>Not use wht prompted this but John G is correct we in the UK all pay insurance, and we are all entitled to treatment FREE it is called the NHS.
I also have private medical insurance just in case I need it, have done in the past will need it again in the not too distant future.
I appreciate that my contribution doesn't cover me being airlifted and potted but at least I do contribute.
Sorry forgot I also vote NO
Fiona
<font color='#0000FF'>Not use wht prompted this but John G is correct we in the UK all pay insurance, and we are all entitled to treatment FREE it is called the NHS.
I also have private medical insurance just in case I need it, have done in the past will need it again in the not too distant future.
I appreciate that my contribution doesn't cover me being airlifted and potted but at least I do contribute.
Sorry forgot I also vote NO
Fiona
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Peter
Hi Looby-Lou[b said:
You don't actually get home. They wave you good bye at the chamber door in the clothes/thinsulate you arrived in without so much as penny whistle to busk for your fare home. Still, on the bright side, at least you're "able" to walk home.[b said:
Peter
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