[Balders]

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<font color='#0000FF'>My buddy and i did 3 dives down at Stoney last Thursday.  We followed the dive plan quite well but the viz was pretty abysmal and we got lost on our second dive and missed "Stanegarth"  altogether.

Anyway we dived sensibly by doing our deepest first and then having 2x 90 minutes surface intervals.

But i got a phone call on Thursday night telling me he had gone to Murrayfield Hyperbaric Chamber feeling unwell.

As it turns out he had a type 1 bend, causing a skin rash and stomach pains and had to spend 6 hours in the chamber.  He has been advised not to dive for 4 weeks to fully recover.

I am a bit puzzled by this because he is a very competent diver and did his stops ok.  If anything i was struggling a bit as i was practicing with my firs SMB and came up a bit quick on my 3rd stop.  Although i got my 3 minutes in.

Although i felt ok and had no problems i am wondering if i too should take 4 weeks off from diving just as a precaution?

Can anybody advise me?.

 

[Helen F H]

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A while ago i was on a dive to 12m for an hour.  We had no stops, and it had been a pretty uneventful dive.  My buddy put his SMB up and got it caught in his octopus and was dragged to the surface.  I had a completley normal ascent and came to the surface to find him not there.  I did the distress signal to our rib and by the time they had got to me, he had popped up.  He was fine, no symptoms at all.  We bunged him on oxygen and we were about 3 mins from our dive shed we headed back there.  Once we got back we were both told that we were going to hospital to get checked out (no arguments there).  When i took my drysuit off i had a rash across my neck, chest and back.  I was then put on o2 as well.  We were taken to A&E to be checked over, and by the time we were seen the rash had gone (about 35 mins post dive).  We both had to have chest x-rays to make sure we hadnt burst a lung, and i got a lecture for diving when im an asthmatic (I have a proper medical every 7 years).  It was decided that this wasnt a bend, and was probably stress induced (seeing your buddy bugger off at 12m is bloody scary, even more so when he isnt there on the surface)

I would wonder if your buddy has a PFO, especially if this was an undeserved bend.  Bung an email to the DDRC, they are very helpful and quick to respond, plus will give you expert advice on what to do.

If it was me i would stay outta the water for the same ammount of time as my buddy.  Hell, the water is cold, put your regs in for service and lie back and relax.

 

[[email protected]]

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Hi Balders

This place is full of advice and with a topic like this much of it will be correct but also conflict!!

Ths trouble with bends is that they are personal, what is right for one is not nesassarily right for the other, although, as Porg mentions, there are some gereral rules which will do you no harm and are sensible.

The fact that your buddy got a bend does not mean you will, but should be a warning sign. The fact that you have not developed one since your dive over 72 hours ago would make it very unlikely you will.

If I were you, and I have been, I would not worry about it, but instead, check yourself out for any symptoms and take appropriate action if required. If you are still wary, give the Royal Navy Doctor a call on 07831 151523. He will probabaly tell you your fine, but that just may be what you need to hear.

 

[peter k]

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What was your depths, bottom times and how much deco/safety stop did you/he do?

Peter

 

[philjem]

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<font color='#000080'>hi, i am phil - balders dive buddy, who got a bend
he said he was going to ask for advice so i will fill you in on the details

we did 3 dives on thur
1st was to 30m for a few mins then along the drop off at 20m to find the bus but missed it
dive time 40 mins with no deco and 3 mins at 6m

surface interval was 1 hr 55 mins

2nd was to 20m - we went to look for the staingarth and missed it
dive time 40 mins, came up on dsmb slowly with no deco and 3 mins at 6m + 150 ft surface swim back

surface interval was 1 hr 11 mins

3rd dive was to 20m we swam to staingarth shot line and decended
dive time 43mins came up on dsmb
computer showed deco - 6mins ascent to 6m then 3mins at 6m which i compleated
i monitor my computer all the time
(after looking at my computer info after downloading to pc it shows ascent alarm)

i felt ok after surfaceing

on the way home i felt really tired and nearly fell asleep at the wheel - thank god balders was with me
my stomach and chest felt ichy and my shoulders were hurting on the joints
it got worse when i got home - and i saw i had a rash on my stomach
i phoned the diving doctors number - which we all have and know - i hope !
he refered me to murrayfield hospital hyperbaric chamber in liverpool
i have o2 at home and used it while i got a friend to drive me there
we got there at 11.30pm and the doc said i had a type 1 skin bend and joint bend
i had 5 hours in the pot on o2 then a further 2 hours in the pot on o2 in the morning
not very plesant - you cant sleep while on o2 as you stop breathing if you do!
i was discharged with no symptoms apart from being very tired

the doc said i could proberly do the same dives again and not get bent and not to worry

then he told me if i get just a skin bend again the next time i go diving (28 days to go!)
then i might have a hole in my heart! just what i wanted to hear before xmas!
i think i just pushed my self too far - i have been abit rundown lately
it does make you very aware though!!

phil

 

[peter k]

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Hi Phil,
         Glad to hear you're OK and there's no lasting effects.
Any chance of putting your profiles on here or E-mail me them so I can have a wee lookie?

Peter

 

[Helen F H]

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I was also told i may have a hole in the heart.  There is a test for it, but you are in better standing to get it done on the NHS than me.  The proper name for it is a PFO - patent foramen ovale (lots of reading on the net, just type it into google with the word scuba and scare yourself silly).  Its left over from when you were in the womb and hasnt closed up.  It has been linked to strokes in old people, and migraines in younger ones.  It can be treated as i have heard of a girl who got very very bent at scapa and had hers treated and still dives now.

 

[ANDY 64]

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<font color='#0000FF'>hey balders ,

glad to see ya mates ok ,,,,,, but no matter what advise or questions you ask , the best bit was NO advise.


Your mate did the BEST thing, instead or ringing around getting advise ,,,,,,,,,, HE FELT UNWELL AND GOT HIMSELF OFF TO THE POT STRAIGHT AWAY.

the instructor or diver that told him about feeling unwell and getting to the pot when he first started diving gave out sound advise , and the main thing he took that info onboard and stuck to it .


when in pain the training kicks in,


rgds

Andy

 

[PaulC]

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Phil, Balders, sorry to hear about your problems. As I can testify, this can happen in the best regulated of organisations. Balders, I would say if you have no symptoms of the bends, and this was not a particularly provocative dive profile, I can't see why you need to spend time out of the water. The message is rather (as of course you seem to have followed in this situation) that if you do have symptoms - whether or not you have "made a mistake" (always a relative term in diving anyway) or whether or not you have followed a completely "shandy" profile then *assume* it is a bend until you have expert advice that it is not. The best to you both!

 

[ANDY 64]

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<font color='#0000FF'>Paul C    whats one of these then ?  

Quote[/b] ]you have followed a completely "shandy" profile

Andy

 

[lizardfish]

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<font color='#810541'>Balders - if you feel fine this long after the dive - you ARE fine

  In My Opinion

have fun diving and stay safe
Glad you are OK Phil.

L.

 

[chrisch]

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I have been reading lots about PFO as my partner/buddy gets migraine (just been given her med cert and referred to Wilmshurst for more check ups).

Based only upon what I have read I don't think that PFO is likely here.  However, if you want to check it out please do - its about 300 notes if you can't get referred on the NHS.  Not pleasant though.

The clue to me was the ascent warning...

I am rapidly coming to believe that fast ascent is the cause of lots of these sorts of incidents.  The profiles were fine and hardly demanding.  However, computers are not as reliable as we would like to think - there are plenty of people out there that do not use them for this reason.

I have started doing deep/intermediate stops on non-deco dives and my ascent rate is very slow.  I still use a computer as its easy/lazy and good enough for recreational stuff, but I don't totally trust it any more.  The Suunto RGBM is the only one I would use for more than 2 dives per day..

Glad to hear you are all OK in the end.  You seem to have done the right thing and not the denial route that we all need to stamp out from our sport.

Chris.

 

[Ian Murray]

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Quote[/b] (philjem @ Dec. 07 2003,18:49)]came up on dsmb slowly with no deco and 3 mins at 6m + 150 ft surface swim back

I think that this and the cold would probably have something to do with it.

If you can help it you reall shouldn't be exerting yourself as soon as you surface. You're probably at the most critical part of your ascent (just surfaced) so any effort / exertion is just going to aggrivate the offgassing.

Regards, Ian.

 

[Dr Stevil]

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THere's so many factors involved in DCI that it's unlikely any two people diving together are entirely equally at risk; as well as dive profile there's hydration status, age, fitness, body fat content, smoker v non-smoker (I know, a controversial point) and as said previously post-dive exertion. On top of all that there are other as-yet-ill-defined genetic and dietary factors which are highly likely to be involved

I'd say if you feel ok then you are but keep monitoring youself in case you're part of that <1% who develop a bend long long after a dive (up to 7 days apparently!)

 

[maffoo]

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<font color='#0000FF'>Hi Ian

Bad news about Phil but I hope all is OK now!!

Just read the thread on YD!!

If this is of any help I was @ Stoney yesterday and had a banging headache after my dives yesterday

I did 2x 22 metre dives &#8211; 1st down to the helicopter and 2nd down to the Stanegarth

I stayed down 41 mins 4 mins over the NDL for that depth on both dives

I don&#8217;t seem to get narked very much but the water was about 5 degrees and I was in a semi-dry and gloves, athough I did deco stops at 18 and 6 metres I felt crap on the way home, almost asleep also!!

I think the cold seems to increase your nitrogen absorption rate more and as you know PADI recommend you plan cold water dives @ 4 metres than your actual depth

This is the coldest dives I have made and I have noticed the nitrogen effects me more on cold dives &#8211; I am convinced I ought to get a dry suit soon!! - I am sure there are people out there whom think I am nuts diving in a semi-dry in December

I am OK today but the experience will stay in my mind &#8211; we all learn about how bends affects our bodies differently

Phil did the right thing but maybe should have gone in the pot earlier - we all should have more reserve about the bends I think

I agree that Phil has more experience diving but Stoney is new ground to both of you and you were both quite adventurous in your dives from what I have just read on YD (maybe too adventurous). Also the vis is notoriously crap all year round!!!

Although I don&#8217;t have a computer I feel it is probably unwise to believe a computer always has the best discernment when calculating your dives, especially in cold water. After all it is programmed by men and you are accepting their discernment for your dives by believing all the computer tells you!

No prob about next week &#8211; keep in touch and we&#8217;ll dive in the new year!

Pass on my best wishes to Phil

See you soon

Matt!!!

 

[chrisch]

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Cold water dives...

Here here Matt - add 4m and some.

Nitrogen bad...  Nitrox better...  Trimix best....

Chris

 

[philjem]

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<font color='#000080'>now then matt...... i would think about what you write before you write it

........as a smack in the mouth usually offends !!!

how does the old saying go.... dont tell your mother how to cook egg's !!!

maybe too adventurous ... you say....

should have gone in the pot earlier .... you say ....

how long do you think it takes to drive from stoney to leeds up the M1, then to keighley in rush hour traffic
then to relise straight away i had got a hit and contact the relevent people- phone call's both ways
then to be told that i cant now drive and have to find a mate to pick me up
and drive me down the M6 to the "pot" by ellesmere port

why it is called a "pot" i have no idea
as it looks nothing like what you would grow a plant in or drink tea out of!

i started diving over 10 years ago in CAVES - open water came after for me
and this aint the first time i've been to stoney as you well know....
phil

i'm narked and blowing off steam...............choooo choooo says thomas !!!

 

[mooseman]

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hi there ian,

I seem to remember your weakness in diving.
I had a computer that said I had been 6 meters and you had been down to 12 like a pirahna
The guy who got the bendz, probably is surseptable to it more than his buddy at stoney.
I seem to remember diving with you, it was more than a minute before you realized that your buddy was struggling to equalize.
Maybe he had a panic attack like I did at capernwray, my buddy told me I would never dive again.
Although I am flying out to sipadan next week and a bit of the phillipines for a bit of paradise with the dolphins.
you facny a week balders.
I am doing my dive master in thailand.
lalalala!! where is po.
Cheers
Sean

 

[philjem]

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<font color='#000080'>WHAT IS THIS

FIND EVERYONES FAULTS AND SLAG THEM OFF IN PUBLIC ?

THIS IS WORSE THAN BEING A MEMBER OF A DIVING CLUB !

PANIC ATTACK

? WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT ?

THE ONLY TIME I PANIC IS WHEN THE WIFE SAYS SHE THINKS SHE IS PREGNANT !!

READ WHAT PEOPLE HAVE WRITEN, BEFORE YOU WRITE SHIT
AND MAIL PEOPLE YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS - DONT DO IT IN PUBLIC

PHIL

 

[Balders]

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<font color='#0000FF'>I seemed to have opened up quite a debate here, all i wanted to know was that if someone as competent as my buddy Phil could get  a bend after making no mistakes in the water to my knowledge at all that day, then whos to say i did'nt have one even though i felt ok.

After only 35 dives i consider myself to be a complete novice and i would'nt know what a bend felt like if it hit me in the chops.

It was quite a overcast and mild day, the temp was about 9 degrees, absolutley no problem with that at all.  Anything less than that and i am too much of a pussy to get in the water at all!!

Anyway guys, thanks for your constructive advice and i have decided to take a few weeks off just to be on the safe side.  

Dive safe all.