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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As mentioned in a previous post I have switched my harness to a one piece.

This has however resulted in me getting into the head down position, as I have moved the cylinders up to enable me to do shutdown drills.

This got me thinking what about some tail weights. I have been looking at the picture on DIRdirect and am not entirely sure how to fit them, as I have not noticed a diver actually using them before.

I take it they go inbetween the bands, but do they sit on the divers side or on the other outer side. Has anyone got any photos of them fitted and does this sound like it may be the answer to my trim problem.

Does anyone know where you can get them in heavier weights than they sell them for on DIRdirect.
 

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aka Chimp 1 or Mavis...
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There was a spate of the tailweight pouches being purchased last year. I use one for sea diving as it is the easiest way to add 2kg without messing things about too much. I compensate for the shifted weight by bringing my legs in a little.

I won't be doing any sea diving until the end of May (and if I do, I can rig something up with some shot bags) so you are more than welcome to borrow it until then.

It takes up to 2.5-3kg and sits over the bottom bolt and between the tanks and the wing. If I remember, I will try and take a picture of it in place.

However, the easiest way to sort your trim out if you have the weight correct, is to move your legs in and out, acting as a large lever on your centre of trim.

HTH
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That is really kind of you to offer, but I live nowhere near your location and would feel bad about you having to rig something if I were using them when you wanted them, very generous of you to offer.

You say you are using a pouch, is this something like the ones on the divingniknaks site. Where you put shot weight bags in it. Does this go inbetween the tanks or just sit on the back as you swim horizontal in the water, it seems like it may move about a bit as you roll off ribs etc.
 

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Make mine a Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster.
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I made up a block weight that straddled the bottom band/bolt to cure my floaty feet, that and switching to heavy fins from the patented Passmore fin weight system (those who have seen it will know :D ).

Oh, and if you live closer to me, I'll give you a hand making one.
 

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The smell of freshly turned delrin is more powerfu
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As mentioned in a previous post I have switched my harness to a one piece.

This has however resulted in me getting into the head down position, as I have moved the cylinders up to enable me to do shutdown drills.
could you explain some more please.
could you not reach your valves before you changed.
changing your harness should not change you position in water ?

I just spent the weekend proving to myself I did not need a tail weight :-0

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sorry I could have been clearer:

I have changed from an apeks harness, very similar to the better know OMS IQ harness, to a one piece harness.

With my old harness I could not reach my valves. No matter which hole I put the tanks on the backplate with I could not tip my head back and touch the 2 first stages on either side of my head. But now having changed my backplate I can adjust it moving the tanks further up my back. This means there is more weight around my head, tipping my head down.

So I think I need the tail weight. I'm looking quite seriuosly at the one on dirdirect.com, but am wondering if it will fit on the tanks as I have boots on my tanks?
 

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DIR and Boots :)

If it's the big lump of lead tail weight I doubt it will fit unless you remove the boots. Even the pouch from the Knackers Yard probably won't fit if you have boots on your cylinders. I use one of the pouches (but no boots) - it slots over the bottom stud of the bands and then the wing and backplate go on top.

I felt very head heavy at first when I moved to twins. You might just want to try a few dives getting used to them before changing your kit about. If you still feel head heavy after another 10 dives or so, then change something.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I don't really want to take the boots off my tanks. So I suppose that is the tail weight out.

When I was using my old harness I was trimed out fine. Then when I addded a stage the weight of the extra valve and first stage tipped me head down.

With the new harness and the twinset at the correct height to do a shutdown I am now more head heavy than ever before. I dont' think it is really a case of do a few more dives because it is a new harness, to eventually get used to it.

I think now I will get hold of some beaver shot pouches and try and bodge something to have them hanging off the bottom bolt or maybe the bottom of the backplate and see how that goes.
 

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aka Chimp 1 or Mavis...
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I don't really want to take the boots off my tanks. So I suppose that is the tail weight out.

When I was using my old harness I was trimed out fine. Then when I addded a stage the weight of the extra valve and first stage tipped me head down.

With the new harness and the twinset at the correct height to do a shutdown I am now more head heavy than ever before. I dont' think it is really a case of do a few more dives because it is a new harness, to eventually get used to it.

I think now I will get hold of some beaver shot pouches and try and bodge something to have them hanging off the bottom bolt or maybe the bottom of the backplate and see how that goes.
Interestingly, do you know you are head down, or do you feel head down? The reason I ask, is that the first few times that you are truely trimmed out, it feels like you are head down when in fact you are level. Do you have anyone who can take some pictures/video of you underwater to let you see what you really look like? As they say, the camera never lies and watching yourself is an 'interesting' experience!! Ask anyone who has done a Fundies course :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yeah I know what you mean.

But I am definately head down. I am familiar with the 'correct' horizontal position. But from this position my feet are just floating off,and it is a real fight to stay on the verge of control over my trim before I stop and then my feet float of further....

I am going to experiment with some shot pouches and see how I can cable tie them to the bottom bolt and see how this goes.
 

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the head down thing is odd. i bought myself twin 10s which i have found impossible to trim and have given up with them. i jumped in a harbour with a friend's twin 12s and they didn't feel any different from the 10s - he watched me slowly go from horizonal to standing on my head without me quivering a fin.

not sure what to do next. i like everything to be perfect and for me that means being able to lie in the water horizontally without making any conscious effort to do so. no problem with a single cylinder, but just can't sem to get there with twins.

oh yeah, i have messed around with tail weights. they help, but don't solve the problem. i also have boots on my cylinders and that's one thing i'm not willing to compromise on. a tail weight can be fitted, but it means loosening off the lower band, putting the weight where you want it and re-tightening. it works, but i dive indies so keeping the cylinders absolutely parallel isn't an issue for me.
 

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I am going to experiment with some shot pouches and see how I can cable tie them to the bottom bolt and see how this goes.
don't think cable ties would do it. you can buy stainless bolts of various lengths from here: A2A4 Intro think this would be a better option. good luck, i know exactly how you feel (see my post above)
 

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Lucky Man
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Interetsing thread for me, as I've also got a floaty feet problem when using my twin 12s.

I considered a tail weight, but then thought does moving 2 or 3 kg from the belt to the bottom of the plate really make enough difference. It's only going to be a couple of inches further away from your head isn't it?

So I'm trying the heavier fins and/or ankle weights options instead. So far CDE Jet Fins might be a touch less floaty that Quattros, bu the ones I nabbed of flea bay are a bit too small.

[hijack]Anyone got a pair of turtles they want to flog? PM me[/hijack]

Cheers,
Dave.
 

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I am going to experiment with some shot pouches and see how I can cable tie them to the bottom bolt and see how this goes.
try a piece of floppy webbing,

Stand cylinders on their feets, (no backplate on) push a piece of webbing through between the cylinder, from the back, between the 2 bands. burn a hole in the webbeing with a hot screwdriver, then place over the bottom bolt, then pull tight from the back of the cylinders.
Now lay on their side and place a shot bag between the cylinders under the bottom band (on the outside/back) then wrap/tuck the webbing under the bottom of the cylinders and pull up towards the bolt,
Burn another hole (in the correct place to make it tight when you pull it over the bolt.)

(i'll take some pics of mine when i get home)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
try a piece of floppy webbing,

Stand cylinders on their feets, (no backplate on) push a piece of webbing through between the cylinder, from the back, between the 2 bands. burn a hole in the webbeing with a hot screwdriver, then place over the bottom bolt, then pull tight from the back of the cylinders.
Now lay on their side and place a shot bag between the cylinders under the bottom band (on the outside/back) then wrap/tuck the webbing under the bottom of the cylinders and pull up towards the bolt,
Burn another hole (in the correct place to make it tight when you pull it over the bolt.)

(i'll take some pics of mine when i get home)
That would be really good if you could take a few pics, as i'm not quite shure what you mean.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Interetsing thread for me, as I've also got a floaty feet problem when using my twin 12s.

I considered a tail weight, but then thought does moving 2 or 3 kg from the belt to the bottom of the plate really make enough difference. It's only going to be a couple of inches further away from your head isn't it?

So I'm trying the heavier fins and/or ankle weights options instead. So far CDE Jet Fins might be a touch less floaty that Quattros, bu the ones I nabbed of flea bay are a bit too small.

[hijack]Anyone got a pair of turtles they want to flog? PM me[/hijack]

Cheers,
Dave.
I don't know, I think it might make enough of a difference. When I was diving with a single tank(plus drysduit) if I put all the weight in the integrated BC pockets I was head down. When I split the weight a bit between BC integrated pockets and a weight belt my trim was fine. I didn't think it would make much difference at the time and was quite surprised by it working.

I hope it will work the same with some sort of tail weight!!

I saw you are looking for some heavy turtle fins, could you keep me posted on how this helps, if it solves the floaty feet? I think I will get some of these but am trying the tail weight option as it is cheaper and less drastic than a complete fin change at this stage.
 

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My experience so far....

Going from a pair of ScubaPro Jet Fins to Mares Quattros (and back again) made no noticable difference to my trim, although I may have unconsciously stetched my legs/feet slightly further back with the quattros.

A tail weight made a huge difference, the one I've got is home-made and sits below the bottom of the back-plate, right at the end of the tanks, so is probably a foot or more lower than a weight-belt.

HTH

andy
 

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One piece harness & shutdowns

I'm interested in the OP's comment that switching to a one piece harness made it more difficult for them to do shutdowns. I have recently started diving in twins, using a one piece harness, and reaching my valves is, frankly, an optimistic fumble. I was surprised by this as I'm pretty supple (am a yoga bore and used to be a swimmer - good shoulder mobility) - could it really be something to do with my harness? I don't really understand why a one piece would make shutdowns more difficult than an adjustable harness. Presumably those of you diving in adjustable harnesses don't stop to lengthen a shoulder strap before reaching for your valves?

I have been diving happily with a single wing, using the same harness & backplate, and don't struggle to reach my single cyl valve at all.

Apologies for the hijack, but if you can enlighten me, perhaps it'll allow Pressure tested to move his/her cyls back to their original, more comfortable position...
 

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My trim with my 10s was pretty good straight away and with no effort so I was a little disappointed to find myself nose down in the silt of Eastbourne Marina when trying out my 12s with a new SSBP and wing.

Initially I tried putting some 1kg shot pouches in the crack of the cylinder under the SSBP but I didn't own enough of them nor could I get enough at the 'business end'.

I then bought a tailweight pouch from Diving Niknaks and I am just about sorted now with my trim. The pouch bolts onto the lowest stud holding my twinning bands together and is at the back of the cylinders (my back being against the front).

To be honest, it doesn't look the prettiest of solutions but it sure as hell was easy to fit and start using + it is very easy to alter the amount of weight in the pouch - up to 3 kgs, I recollect.

If you are passing Bexhill you are welcome to have a look - at my tail pouch that is! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm interested in the OP's comment that switching to a one piece harness made it more difficult for them to do shutdowns. I have recently started diving in twins, using a one piece harness, and reaching my valves is, frankly, an optimistic fumble. I was surprised by this as I'm pretty supple (am a yoga bore and used to be a swimmer - good shoulder mobility) - could it really be something to do with my harness? I don't really understand why a one piece would make shutdowns more difficult than an adjustable harness. Presumably those of you diving in adjustable harnesses don't stop to lengthen a shoulder strap before reaching for your valves?

I have been diving happily with a single wing, using the same harness & backplate, and don't struggle to reach my single cyl valve at all.

Apologies for the hijack, but if you can enlighten me, perhaps it'll allow Pressure tested to move his/her cyls back to their original, more comfortable position...
No worries, not really a hijack it's still good relevant stuff.

I'm obviously no expert on the harness and shutdown bit but will tell you my reasons for changing and what (little) I have found out.

With my padded adjustable harness I had to do it up very tight so it was at least comfortable on my back. This shifted my tanks a bit far down my back, and had my shoulders pretty much pinned in position. Making it difficult to even scratch my ears.:frown:

Apparently you are meant to be able to tip your head back and touch the first stages on each side. I could nowhere near do this with my adjustable harness.

I have found the one piece harness, where my back is directly on the backplate (no padding), feels like the whole rig is closer (cos it is) and tighter to your back.

I have found there is far more adjustability in a one piece harness. You should be able to reach back and touch the top of the back plate. which I can do with the one piece. My shoulders are also more comfortable/easy to move with the simple webbing of the one piece.

Maybe you have not set the harness up properly, but as I say I'm no pro, but this is what I have found switching to the one piece so far. I now have the tanks in pretty much the right position, but now just need to stop my feetv floating off:embarassed:
 
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