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Looking to get into tec diving in the north west area. Am Padi DM 100 dives( deep, wreck etc) and i already prefer to dive with a wing. Recomendations for the most appropriate course/agency would be appreciated and any contacts in the northwest would be handy.
Thanks Twix
 

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<font color='#000F22'>Easy choice,

Andy Hayhurst TDI Instructor trainer, all round nice bloke and is in your area. Well Sedbergh anyway.

See www.dalesdivers.co.uk for more details.

Any questions speak to Andy or contact me.
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>I did my IANTD advanced Nitrox course with NorthWest Techincal Divers.  It was in 1997, excellent instructor.  Mike can't remember his surname think it was Wilkins.

Just looked up on search engine, Tel: 01744 814884, email - [email protected]

Lots of skills instructions, like shutting down and gas switching.

 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Hi

I suppose it depends on what exactly you call technical diving.

Once you've decided exactly what type of diving you are talking about then you will know the steps to take. Deep wrecks, caves, rebreathers etc.

As one of the DIR contingent I would recommend you look at GUE as a training agency and the way they build your skills www.gue.org.

Starting at Fundamentals stage you learn how not to be a vertical diver (and believe me, at this moment you ARE a vertical diver), how to learn better buoyancy, the basics you need to be a 'technical' diver, and the importance of knowing how to plan a dive without a computer and of course, all done with a minimalist hogarthian equipment setup. Thats just a few of the skills you learn. Its very intensive and extremely good fun, usually taken over a weekend.

The next step would be a Tech1 course which concentrates more on accelerated deco with stages and also qualifies you for nitrox and trimix to 50 mtrs ish saving you doing several piecemeal courses with other agencies. This is a 5 day course, 40 hours of instruction and I think 8 dives or so.

Andy Kerslake is the GUE instructor in the UK and runs courses all the time, usually only with 2 or 3 students to maximise instructor student time.

I am sure that if you ask other GUE trained divers such as Bob Cooper and Mark Emery they will endorse my comments.

And of course, DIR divers always look the coolest underwater, which is what technical diving is all about surely !

 

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The Artist formerly known as 'John Duncan'
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<font color='#F52887'>to: Wetlettuce
the only website I have for the GUE is Global Underwater Explorers if there is another could you let me know, Also do you know of any GUE instructors in the Bristol/ South West area?
 

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Concord fully with Gav Yates on this. Andy Hayhurst can be contacted on TEL: 07702 819381, but you might want to leave it until Wednesday as he's in Menorca as we speak.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (JohnDuncan @ June 02 2003,12:07)]to: Wetlettuce
the only website I have for the GUE is Global Underwater Explorers if there is another could you let me know, Also do you know of any GUE instructors in the Bristol/ South West area?
Hi, I think that's the only specific website that GUE have. They don't have a specific UK one but you can get some info from http://www.underwaterexplorers.co.uk/gue/index.html

Andy Kerslake is the only current GUE instructor in the UK but will travel to run a course.

HTH
Rob.
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Hi John

Welcome to YD !

Andy Kerslake is based in the south and he is available via Underwater Explorers in the UK. [email protected]

http://www.underwaterexplorers.co.uk have some stuff on the courses available in the UK

There are loads of DIR/GUE based websites. You'd have to ask what your specific interest is. I might know a more specific location. A few links follow;

http://www.fifthd.com    AndrewG's site, has some info on it and good videos

http://www.dir-uk.org    UK's DIR site

http://www.divetekadventures.com Loads of info here. Click on the pic to go to a whole bunch of stuff. If you click on the link at the bottom right theres a bunch of stuff on scooters and courses.

Hope that helps

WL
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Hi

Just a generalisation. My interpretation follows;

We are traditionally taught the flutter kick, which means our legs are pretty much straight. If you imagine your body as a seesaw then you can see that a lot of the weight is on the upper part of your body. Your head (6lbs negative) your tanks, your weights etc. which, as your body is pretty much straight will tilt the seesaw head first. To counteract that it is a natural tendency to angle the body upwards in a diagonal type trim, which I call diving vertical, with reference to my own opinion on my diving and many other divers I see. The seesaw still wants to tip head first and so the diver must continually kick to keep heads up. As the flutter kick produces downward energy you will swim upwards and so you will always need to kick to stay at the same level. A pronounced version is watching a novice diver, whos kicking like buggery and also moving their arms about to stop their head hitting the dirt! This is until they find that the secret is to keep shoulders up and knees down and establish their own balance. The only way to stop is to go vertical. It can't be helped if you use a flutter kick. When you add ankle weights to solve the floaty feet complaint to the equation it increases this tendency even more. Just follow a flutter kicker for a while and then follow a GUE/DIR diver and see the difference. To me it was night and day.

GUE teach that the back is arched, head resting against the valves, and a frog kick used with bent knees therefore producing a kick which thrusts horizontally. By changing the angle of your shins (which have the benefit of heavy Jet fins)and head you can achieve a truly horizontal position in the water. Arching your back brings more of the weight to the middle of the seesaw. GUE also place a great emphasis on placing the weight in the right place to facilitate a completely motionless horizontal hover. Thats why backplates and vweights are preferred and the tanks are placed lower in the bands. The hands are also used to blance the seesaw and this results in what I call the DIR prayer position (praying to the great god wakulla
) (I can and do laugh at myself)

It wasn't meant as an insult, just laughing at myself as to the type of diver I thought I was, and how I saw myself on video. I related that to Twix to help him in his question.

Kindest Regards

WL
 

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Ok.....now just so we are clear, this isn't anti-DIR, this is in response to the post above


So anyone who hasn't been on the GUE course flutter kicks? And tilts badly in the water?  
I have to say that whilst I am sure I don't do it great, I do the whole bent leg frog-kick thing.  I haven't fluttered for ages, just because I found flutter-kicking tiring and uncomfortable.  I can manage a pretty motionless horizontal hover too, although I do have to waggle my fins to stop rolling - I think that is exacerbated by the single tank effect?  None of this was GUE taught, it was just practising and learning to be comfy in the water through actually diving!  Not much else to do in Stoney through the winter.

And you have brought up my favourite question too......why do heavy Jetfins cause a different effect to ankle-weights and lighter fins?  If I draw the force diagram for those two configs they are remarkably similar!  


Regards

Lou
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Lou @ June 02 2003,16:00)]Ok.....now just so we are clear, this isn't anti-DIR, this is in response to the post above


So anyone who hasn't been on the GUE course flutter kicks? And tilts badly in the water?  
I have to say that whilst I am sure I don't do it great, I do the whole bent leg frog-kick thing.  I haven't fluttered for ages, just because I found flutter-kicking tiring and uncomfortable.  I can manage a pretty motionless horizontal hover too, although I do have to waggle my fins to stop rolling - I think that is exacerbated by the single tank effect?  None of this was GUE taught, it was just practising and learning to be comfy in the water through actually diving!  Not much else to do in Stoney through the winter.

And you have brought up my favourite question too......why do heavy Jetfins cause a different effect to ankle-weights and lighter fins?  If I draw the force diagram for those two configs they are remarkably similar!  


Regards

Lou
Hi

No Lou, I was generalising on what I see most of the time, and I did not mean to insult anybody. I know you are not DIR bashing, never seen you do any of that so it would be out of character wunnit
I have a new hat (or set of leaves!) and am trying to be more polite. So here goes!

I did the frogkick pretty much exclusively from the start because I saw a dive guide do it in the red sea and thought it looked cool. But when I saw myself on video I was not horizontal. I dropped my knees just the same as a flutter kick 'humping the dog' was the choice phrase used! For all I knew I was horizontal with perfect trim, until I saw the video and it was pointed out in front of all my peers. This was the same for EVERYBODY, 12 divers from all different backgrounds. The main difference was arching the back and bending knees at 90 degrees clenching buttocks at the same time to keep the knees up (kama sutra for divers anyone?
). I've only seen DIR divers do that or talk about it. If I have over generalised I apologise.

I have recently added a stage cylinder and argon to my kit and am having to learn this all over again so its a topic of great interest to me. Until I can learn to adapt my position for the difference in weight distribution every change to my kit alters my trim. I assume thats the same for all divers.

Ankle weights: They can come loose and fall off. If your knees are bent at 90 degrees they might slip down your leg therefore changing the weight distribution. You have to walk to the entry point with them. They can tangle, collect kelp, weed, whatever. They can also restrict circulation. Jet fins are stiff enough to provide the (allegedly) most efficient frog kick and to do back kicks ( I have tried doing back kicks with other fins and it is much harder) etc. and are better(open to debate?) than lighter fins which may provide less force in the water. In essence you are right, both methods can produce a similar result but why wear fins and ankle weights when the jetfins will suffice (and they're only £59) ?

Hope that Helps

WL
 

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Actually, WL, I tried the buttock clenching thing after reading it on you write-up.  I could feel it make a difference and now i do it when I remember.....


I know what you are saying, and I am sure that I would be horrified to see myself on video but I do always try to keep my feet above me with legs at 90 degrees etc, because I am paranoid about killing something with them!

As for the ankle weights.....I can't say if Jetfins are any good as fins, I've always been a little sceptical of them personally but have never tried them.  It was just the fact that it is encouraged to use the weight of fins to correct trim, but ankle weights are decried as evil
  by all and sundry!  

I wear them, but for me it helps my tirm (I think...one day I'll try without) but it also takes 2kg off a heavy weightbelt.

I would be interested in doing a course like the DIR-F to have these different views on skills taught and debated, but a) they wouldn't have me and b) I don't believe in the "whole" message so I think I would find it strained.

Personally I am looking at the TDI route as it seems to be broken down into manageable chunks tat tie in with how I would see my diving progressing and with breaks where I would just dive and get experience.

Lou
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Hi

When you go the BP wing setup you will be able to lose some of that weight. You can get almost 6kg off with a Backplate and weighted Single Tank Adaptor. If you went twin 7's (300 Bar) you might not even need any weight!

Regarding courses then you could always ask your TDI instructor if they have video available and whether they can work on your trim or whether they can address it in the course. In my experience all instructors from GUE, TDI, BSAC whatever are friendly, approachable and will help you with any concerns you have (and I've done lots of courses
) whether its in the curriculum or not.

Kindest Regards

WL
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] ] by wl
GUE teach that the back is arched, head resting against the valves, and a frog kick used with bent knees therefore producing a kick which thrusts horizontally. By changing the angle of your shins (which have the benefit of heavy Jet fins

hehe this is how i dive (using force finns) and i allways thaught i was the odd one out, just dived how i found right,

but i do find that on the surface, swimming/snorkaling that it becomes uncomftable, and that you keep breaking the surface with your finns, have i got this part wronge?
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>
[b said:
Quote[/b] (steve-k @ June 02 2003,19:12)]
hehe this is how i dive (using force finns) and i allways thaught i was the odd one out, just dived how i found right,

but i do find that on the surface, swimming/snorkaling that it becomes uncomftable, and that you keep breaking the surface with your finns, have i got this part wronge?
Hi

Not at all, in fact using Force Fins by flapping them in the air is probably quicker than using them in the water ROFLMAO


WL
 

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lol

only ever used force finns, bought them doing my ow and had them ever since, the ease of getting them on and off and getting back on a hardboat ladder makes up for a lot,
i keep saying i will have to try some other type, just to compair


first time i used them was the first time i had a drysute on, on my first ow dive, and i actually went backwards when i finned ROFLMAO
 

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Hi,

Just got to add a bit. Most decent "tech" instructors advocate a horizontal position, for the most part it was explained to me, because a) this is better for decompression and b) in the case of an emergency it makes the process infinatly more convenient. A seminal moment for me was learning to clear my mask with out actually tilting my head.

I know the DIR position, but, for those of us with slightly dodgy backs, it puts a lot of strain in the wrong place (still diving with Mark half the bleeding time is spent trying to find his next dinner so we rarely look up). If the tanks are in the correct position, you can acheive a fairly look forward atitude without a bent spine. WL. this is not a DIR bash, just a fact of life.

Lou, if you move to twins n wings you will find the rolling issue disappears on its own. You live pretty close to the guy who has been teaching me and I can put you in touch with him if you like.

Andrew
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Disclaimer: this is not an anti-DIR bash etc etc etc

Right, arched back, I'm assuming you mean more-so than the natural curvature of the spine? that sounds decidedly uncomfortable to me and to adopt that throughout an hour long dive sounds quite painful.

I won't go into the type of fins thing 'cos I use split fins and I know you boys don't like them, moving swiftly on...

Motionless hover, yes was taught that on BSAC Adv Nitrox, several guys failed because they couldn't manage that.
However TDI teach you to use small gentle movements during deco in order to facilitate better blood circulation and, consequently, off-gassing, which makes better scientific sense.

Interesting to know GUE use filming in training, would make for some great "You've been framed " sessions I guess. Mind, now I understand why you frequently comment on what you feel "looks cool".  As Al Pacino says in Devils Advocate "Vanity, definately my favourite sin."

BTW WL, whatever other views I might have re your posts, I have never found them impolite so don't worry too much about your "new set of leaves",  although you do realise that all this talk of "looking cool" will be the subject of some interest and scrutiny when you come to do the Tyne wrecks, hope you don't suffer from stage-fright  
 

Chee-az
Steve
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Steve W @ June 03 2003,16:27)]Right, arched back, I'm assuming you mean more-so than the natural curvature of the spine? that sounds decidedly uncomfortable to me and to adopt that throughout an hour long dive sounds quite painful.

BTW WL, whatever other views I might have re your posts, I have never found them impolite so don't worry too much about your "new set of leaves",  although you do realise that all this talk of "looking cool" will be the subject of some interest and scrutiny when you come to do the Tyne wrecks, hope you don't suffer from stage-fright  
 

Chee-az
Steve
<font color='#0000FF'>Hi Steve

Lay on your belly, arms in front of you and resting very lightly on your elbows. Now bend your legs 90 degrees. Look straight ahead. Clench buttocks so knees are not resting on floor. Back arched so no pressure on elbows. Wiggle feet around pretending to do frog kicks. Do this in a public place. Cool? Not really, but it does strengthen those back muscles


Apologies, can't make it to the wrecks because I am diving Farnes that weekend. Got confused with date of bank holiday. I'm currently thinking about doing the Sunday at Anglesey but I'm not sure I can make it. Its the first weekend after Sharm. I'm sure we'll sort something out soon. I'm keeping my eye on AndyPs southern trip.

And talking about scrutiny and stage fright, I'm looking forward to seeing these batwings of yours !!
If they are as big as they say they are I'll simply hide behind them LOL

Kindest Regards

WL
 
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