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Most certainly not - I may not be the biggest fan for the third worshiphouse of Irvine, but this I think everyone will admit is bloody impressive (also I'm bored and nothing has been posted here for 10 days....)


The EKPP (European Karst Plain Project) pushed the Doux de Coly on August, 22 to 5675 mtr (18618 ft) distance to air.

The dive started in the morning of August,22 at 7:03 am and lasted 18 hours 21 minutes. The divers Michael Waldbrenner and Reinhard Buchaly surfaced in the morning of August, 23 at 1:24 am. 675 meters of line were added and surveyed from their 5000 mtr endpoint of the last year.

Both divers used a double RB80 rebreather configuraton with 2x 20 liter backmounted bailout cylinders (trimix 16/80). Three drive stages were used with 2x trimix 22/70 and 1x 16/80 and five magnum Gavin scooters per
diver. All rebreathers were fitted with a custom counterlung optimized for the depth of the cave. Lighting was with a 18 Watt HID with a custom made reflector powered by 20 Ah Nicads.

The dive started with a visibility of 15 to 20 meters ( 50-65 ft). Due to heavy rainfalls two days ago the vis reduced after approx. 1000 m (3300 ft) distance to initally 4 meters (13 ft) , then 2 meters ( 6 ft) visibility. Luckily the vis improved again after 2300 meters (7500 ft) to the starting vis.

Again at 4500 mtr (14700 ft) the vis went down, but it improved after further 200 meters. When reaching the endpoint of the last year at 5000 meters (16400 ft) it was expected that the cave would continue the downslope. But it stayed at a level between 65 and 60 meters (213 - 197 ft). The cave got smaller at 5300 meters (17400 ft) where the tunnel ended in a T. Choosing the way to the right, the now smaller and silty tunnel went in eastern direction til the line was tied off at 5675 mtr.

Bottom time was around 8 hours. The decompression took place in the shaft 300 meters from the entrance. Total deco time was about 9 hours 15 minutes. Additional time was spent travelling the shallow part and entering and
exiting the habitat for the last three hours of deco. Water temp is around 12,5° C. Both divers felt well after the dive, and after a good sleep jogging the next morning showed no lung problems.

A more detailed description of the dive and the team effort will be placed on a website in a few weeks.

We want to thank our great DIR support team for their excellent work.

We had a lot of fun within the team and enjoyed the dives.

Reinhard Buchaly and Michael Waldbrenner


Found on a DIR-lovers site http://www.innerrealm.co.nz/ - even has GI's definition of a stroke and his reasoning against the Expiration (YBOD)
 

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The upshot then is dont dive with an Inspiration but if you must for God's sake dont smoke, according to the High Gods of DIR you're gonna die. Anyone told our lot over here that. Or is just a case of American over reaction. Time will tell I suspect. Me I'll stay OC and smoke free, just in case the bugger's right.
Matt

(Edited by MATTBIN at 6:48 pm on Oct. 31, 2002)
 

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Rather contrived in places, the anti-inspiration article.

Things like "diver is faced with equalizing counter lungs, ears, sinuses, mask drysuit, BCD, monitoring PO2 on handsets, buddy position, light and depth in the water column"

The only things on there that an OC diver isn't also contending with is the counterlungs and PO2 monitoring. And since most CCR divers seem to use their suit for buoyancy because they don't change weight during a dive, they have two extra things to keep an eye on, and one less thing to do.

Nice to see GI shares my opinion of the Autoair tho ;)
 

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Not wishinsg to stir things up , but... this DIR thing,interesting though it may be, seems very rigid to me.

For instance, it suggests that anything but a Halcyon BC is unreliable, whereas I was influenced by my experiences with NOAA to get the OMS system.

I wouldn't mind learning more about DIR and perhaps adopting the bits that really appealed, but the apparent lack of flexibility is (for the likes of me) off-putting.
Is it really as inflexible as I seem to think? I'm afraid that I can't accept the there is only one 'correct' way to configure your kit anymore than I can accept that is is "wrong" to write left-handed.
Regards
Steve
 

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I agree with Steve W's sentiments.This has obviously been discussed at length before,here and elsewhere.However I have found some of the DIR brigade to be very approachable,balanced people who have an interest in their diving and some great level of experience.They make their decision to adopt DIR (or not and take some of it's philosophy/practice which they like)to build upon their knowledge etc.There are of course exceptions to this,but there's tossers in all walks of life is'nt there.As in other fields if someone is taught specifically to do something one particular way and led to beleive it's the best then it is very hard to change their opinion.(This can create probs if it goes pear shaped,more from a phschological point of view as they can't beleive it's happening to them).Anyone who's ever met a newly trained US Marine or indeed read Blackhawk Down will know what I'm on about(I use these 2 as an example only,it's not just the Yanks who suffer from this,we all can!)I found this link some time ago which gives a breif overview of DIR and is worth a read.Take care,Hobby.
http://www.diver.net/seahunt/fend/f_mhk1.htm
 

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Cheers for the link Jay, seems like a more flexible approach, I'm sure there are more folk than Hobby and myself who think regular DIR is a bit too rigid.

Incidentally, BSAC have just recently abandoned the "octopus " concept and are now training "donation of primary" reg, so some of these "hogarthian" (jeez... that always sounds so pompous to me) concepts are gaining more widespread acceptance.
As I am now looking at buying a 3l pony (or 7l stage)  for nitrox , I'm wondering about the getting Ali rather than steel, prices don't seem all that different really.
Cheers
Steve
 

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</span>
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote: from Heads Up on 8:33 am on Nov. 1, 2002
"The Doux de Coly Pushback"

Are you sure this isn't a sexual position? ;)
<span =''>Wouldn't know Jay, I'm a married man :lol:
 

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The Doux De Coly push isn't a fantastic achievement - there are many British Cave Divers who have achieved more monumental pushes using far less equipment.  GI is only pushing resurgence type caves with DIR - an approach clearly not applicable in UK sumps.  The DIR approach has been cultivated for a specific environment and as such is not applicable to UK Cave Diving, therefore his statements about British diving really hold no validity. That said, I have respect for the man's achievements in Fla, and his deco theory is equallyl respectable. DIR is a fine system for open water or large resurgences. I would not advocate it for tighter overhead penetrations.

The comments about the Inspiration are of course the comments of someone who has a product to sell and wishes to influence the diver market towards buying a certain type of rebreather.  The task load on the Inspiration is not massive as he suggests. The RB80 rebreather has a less than perfect safety record and that is with much, much less users than the Inspiration.  I know which I prefer...
 

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Bugger it, I'll quote in BOLD ITALICS

The Doux De Coly push isn't a fantastic achievement - there are many British Cave Divers who have achieved more monumental pushes using far less equipment.


I only called it a fantastic achievement for the fact they could carry 5 Gavin's, 2 RB80's with 20l bailouts, three stages and an 18W HID with 20Ah powerpack - imagine the size of wing needed!

:lol:

and his deco theory is equallyl respectable.


Like ferk is it - it's taken a real battering recently on DiveOz (Strokes Vs DIR forum) by many including Dr. Simon Mitchell, hyperbaric specialist who was one of two divers on the HMAS Centaur wreck at 175m......

And I quote....


Hi everyone,

I've only just picked up on this thread and I know the first page stuff is a bit out of context now. However, (and let me wipe the final tears of laughter out of my eyes)....

Brad, how on God's earth can you give any credibility to someone with no medical training, who would argue with a specialist diving physician about a safe layoff from diving following decompression illness?? Don't bother answering... it's obviously a rhetorical question.

Oh yes, and just to endorse the point made in the initial post. Let's hear no more rubbish about how George's theories are proven by his safety record. You have not got a foggy clue about the incidence of DCI in dives conducted according to "George's theories", but clearly there is an incidence (and I suspect we will never hear the truth of it).



taken from this thread . Also see the bitchfight "Innerrealm" (who's site the DDC Push was from) gets in with everyone and gets shown up for the usual "scrape and regurgitate" tripe. PS Please bear with it as it's a 6 page thread but 3-4 is really funny and it gets better.

For GI's horizontal arguement (a.k.a hydrostatic head problem) see Here (and 'scuse the start - my usualy bitchfight over steel verses ali wind-up... and also Here from which I quote


Finally, and with respect to the criticism of Kevin's form, if any DIR diver can produce ONE set of valid DATA describing an outcome advantaqe for "horizontal" over "vertical" decompression I will personally consume a turd from the DIR diver of their choice in a bread roll.


By Dr. Simon Mitchell (again)

For a real laugh see Gunning down Richard Taylor and Simon Mitchell   for the poor side of DIR mentality

PS 'scuse the post - Jay, what's going on with the "quote" thingy? It's shot tae buggery - edited

(Edited by Driftwood at 9:29 am on Nov. 8, 2002)
 

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</span>
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote: from Heads Up on 9:09 pm on Nov. 8, 2002
</span>
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote: from Driftwood on 9:00 am on Nov. 8, 2002
Jay, what's going on with the "quote" thingy? It's shot tae buggery - edited[/br]
<span =''>
Seems fine to me!
<span =''>

It's when, as Dommie said </span>
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]you get multiple quotes in a post
<span =''>
Does this look okay? :lol3:
 

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</span>
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote: from Driftwood on 7:31 am on Nov. 9, 2002
</span>
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote: from Heads Up on 9:09 pm on Nov. 8, 2002
</span>
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote: from Driftwood on 9:00 am on Nov. 8, 2002
Jay, what's going on with the "quote" thingy? It's shot tae buggery - edited[/br]
<span =''>

Seems fine to me!
<span =''>

It's when, as Dommie said </span>
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]you get multiple quotes in a post
<span =''>
Does this look okay? :lol3:
<span =''>

Yes

(Edited by Heads Up at 11:05 am on Nov. 9, 2002)
 

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Look closer - 4th line should end that level and return to normal but does not and don't blame me - I clicked "quote" ;)

Only bit i typed in was "It's when, as Dommie said" - and quoted.....
 

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</span>
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote: from Driftwood on 9:00 am on Nov. 8, 2002
Finally, and with respect to the criticism of Kevin's form, if any DIR diver can produce ONE set of valid DATA describing an outcome advantaqe for "horizontal" over "vertical" decompression I will personally consume a turd from the DIR diver of their choice in a bread roll.
<span =''>

One for SteveW, I've often seen you post about trim during deco / safety stops etc,  so I'm interested in your take on this, does the above suggest that actually trim is not really relevant?  (Course I didn't read the full article this refers to so apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick).

I ask because I'm rubbish at maintaining horizontal trim during stops (I know I must practice more) - during the dive, fine, but the moment I think "stay horizontal" - Boom, there I go, head up and feet down!

(Edited by Timing at 4:07 pm on Nov. 11, 2002)
 

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Tim,

Are you wearing ankle weights? Cos if you are horizontal (superman stylee) stops are almost impossible I'd venture.
 

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Hi Gav,

No, no ankle weights.  When I was in Cap the other week my instructor did a free ascent completely horizontally and maintained that during the safety stop whilst I was hangin vertically from my blob - I hadn't seen that before (although thats not saying a lot given my limited no of dives) and was impressed, I don't mind saying.
 

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I find that, no mater how good my trim is or isn't, the best way of keeping horizontal during an ascent is to not keep my feet still.

That doesn't mean you have to actually fin along or anything - just moving them gently side to side will do it.

It might sound like cheating, but any balancing act we do tends to involve moving a bit to stay still - try standing on one foot, you'll notice that you never stay completely still: your foot will move slightly to keep you balanced, and you've got YEARS more practice in standing up than you have floating horizontal.
 
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