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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Underwater images of the Nazi Shipwreck Wilhelm Gustloff sunk with the loss of 7700 lives can now be found on deepimage follow the link on the home page

http://www.deepimage.co.uk/

Regards
Leigh Bishop
Related link: DeepImage Shipwreck website
 

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Do you mean 7700? That is a lot of lives.

Sorry if I'm being pedantic, if you'e got your numbers right, that's testament to me to the madness of war. I suppose it sometimes just has to happen. I can't believe it's as many as that, though.
 

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Hi Digger,

When the Wilhelm Gustloff went down, on the other hand, with the loss of more than 7,000 lives, the controlled media adopted the deliberate policy that it was a non-event, not to be commented on or even reported. The Wilhelm Gustloff, like the Titanic, was a big passenger liner and was reasonably new and luxurious. But it was a German passenger liner. It was sunk in the Baltic Sea on the night of January 30, 1945, by a Soviet submarine. It was packed with nearly 8,000 Germans, most of them women and children escaping from the advancing Soviet Army.

Taken from "Sinking of Wilhelm Gustloff" by Dr William Pierce.

Full link HERE

It's some story, whether right or wrong is open for debate.

Peter
 

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You might want to find a better link than that.  It starts off OK, but goes downhill rather. (Hint, if the site's front page claims that it's not really a hate site, those lies are all part of the jewish conspiracy, you might want to find a more reputable source.)
 

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It's just a link following on from Brens original one. I only picked the paragraph out to show Digger that the casualty numbers are indeed in the 7000's and showed the full link through courtesy to the guy who wrote it.
Sorry if it wasn't to your taste, but thems the facts of war.

Peter
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (rasilon @ Aug. 29 2003,15:19)]You might want to find a better link than that.  It starts off OK, but goes downhill rather. (Hint, if the site's front page claims that it's not really a hate site, those lies are all part of the jewish conspiracy, you might want to find a more reputable source.)
damn straight you might want to find a more reputable source.

I read the article last night and found it extremely annoying. Without wanting to turn this is into a 'war philosophy' debate, Dr Pierce's article strikes me as a very biased piece and it's a sham to call it a right to reply.

Do you wonder why the russian's had a low enough opinion of the germans, to rape, shoot and sink their civilians? could it be anything to do with the low opinion the germans had of the russian's or that the german invasion of russia that wiped out millions of russian people. Of course, this was after hitler and stalin's non-aggression pact.

Modern war has shown us that no-one is outside a conflict, something the germans were keen to demonstrate with their terror bombing of london and the south east, fire bombing dresden, sinking passenger ships or the events of 9-11.

as people in the world we do have choices, we can either stand behind our governments and give them the will to destroy the people that would destroy us or elect a government of apeasment.
 

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The facts of war aren't the problem, the problem is the far right mess that they got mixed with.  The facts of the piece are confirmed by other sources, I'm just pointing out that citing a blatantly frothing fuitloop  isn't best practice.  Try a  Google search for some more respectable sources.  Anyway, that's the end of my tuppence on the issue.  Dive safe all.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (gaz @ Aug. 29 2003,15:52)]damn straight you might want to find a more reputable source.
Take your pick from HERE Gaz. See if any of that suits you more. Like I said, I only lifted that paragraph out to show Digger it was indeed 7000+ dead. I never said anything more about it than that. If you don't agree with what Dr W.Pierce says in the rest of his article then take it up with him and not me.
 

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Pete,

I'm not having a dig at you.

It's just very unfortunate for that site that of all the websites that deepimage could have linked their 'freedom of speech' to, they decided to choose one written by a 'blatantly frothing fuitloop'.

Of the links you sent me, this one is probably the most interesting:

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii....ff.aspx

as it has a top 10 'Greatest Marine Disasters' <sic>
 

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Gaz

Well noted link, seems to give a very detailed and accurate view.

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·



Rogue divers raid war grave wreck
By Kate Connolly
(Filed: 13/11/2004)

The wreck of a German ship sunk by Soviet torpedoes in the Baltic Sea 60 years ago, with the loss of 9,000 lives, is being systematically plundered by rogue divers.

The Wilhelm Gustloff, which was packed with refugees when it sank on the night of Jan 10, 1945, in what experts say is the worst maritime disaster in history, has been stripped of everything from its portholes to wash basins.

Many of the divers are encouraged by rumours that items such as ashtrays and bed linen from the ship are regularly snapped up by German collectors "for the price of a Mercedes".

Others are driven by the stories that the wreck might still be hiding panels from the priceless Amber Room from St Petersburg which were lost in the chaos of the war.

Diving to and penetrating the Gustloff wreck is illegal, largely because it is recognised as a war grave.

But Poland's maritime authorities say that although they can refuse permits to all but the most serious historical and scientific expeditions, their lack of resources make them powerless to stop most forays to the wreck. "People who dive there illegally are no better than grave robbers," said Andrzej Krolikowski, of the Maritime Office in Gdynia.

In the northern Polish seaside resort of Leba, 22 miles from the wreck, several diving clubs openly advertise day trips to the Gustloff and two other German wartime shipwrecks, the Goya and the Steuben.

Sebastian Popek, of the Baltic Wrecks Association, which offers tailor-made trips to the German wrecks for rich businessmen and film crews, said: "You get quite a sensation - the most powerful moment is when you see the gothic letters on the back of the ship spelling out its name.

''If you know the history of it, you can't help but be moved."

One diver who knows the wreck better than most is Jerzy Janczukowicz. Every room of his house in Gdansk is cluttered with dusty artefacts from Second World War wrecks that he has salvaged over the years.

But the items of which the 66-year-old is most proud are from the Gustloff.

These include the blackened shell of a chandelier from the ship's ballroom, which he has turned into a coffee table, part of the ship's compass and, propped up outside his house, an algae- and mollusc-covered rusty stair rail.

"I don't consider what I do to be illegal, or disrespectful to the dead," Mr Janczukowicz said.

"It's about preserving the past, stopping people from destroying evidence of it, just like the British Museum thinks it is important to preserve sarcophagi." He last visited the wreck with members of his diving club, Shark, three weeks ago

"It's lying on its left side, swathed in fishing nets. Now there's not so much left to take.

''Maybe a propeller, the gangplank, some portholes, and boxes and boxes of munition rounds which look like cases of champagne.''

He added: ''Once I saw the skeleton of a soldier, still wearing its boots and a military belt."

The ship, which was carrying mainly women and children refugees escaping the advancing Red Army, as well as U-Boat soldiers and wounded troops, sank in 62 minutes.

Most passengers jumped into the freezing Baltic Sea where all but 1,200 drowned.

Until well into the 1980s relatives were still trying to trace lost children and parents believed to have been on board.

One of the survivors, Heinz Schön, was an 18-year-old junior purser on the ship.

From his Paderborn home, Mr Schön said: "When I close my eyes I can still see the children who had been thrown overboard in their lifejackets, their heads under the water, their feet sticking in the air, and I hear their mothers' screams.

''I saw one man shoot his wife and two children before turning the gun on himself and realising he'd run out of bullets.

"I find it extraordinarily insensitive that people feel they have the right to plunder this graveyard for every last anchor, lamp and porthole. I hope they are haunted by what they do."


A Memorial to the Wilhelm Gustloff
 

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Ok Guys indeed by the sound of this thread I have linked to a site that does not best help. Can someone do some homework for me and find the best link I can to replace it with.
regards
Leigh Bishop
 

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Hi Leigh, i think that link that gaz has posted is one of the better one's around on the subject.
 

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