[Jay]

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Well, as most of already know, I have made the move to diving with wings and a twinset. I know it will take many dives to perfect my own system but, I CAN'T REACH MY VALVES!!

I spoke to Dave a few nights ago and he summed the problem exactly - when I am in my dry suit and undersuit, I can barely reach the back of my neck never mind my valves - there is NO WAY I can touch them. I have adjusted and readjusted my harness so that my backplate is as high as I can get it. My cylinders are as high as I can have them without:

1. The pillar valves hitting the back of my head when looking up
2. The cylinders over weighting me on my profile (my first dive they were both hitting the back of my head AND making me dive in the most rediculour inverted profile!)

I have adjusted the tanks so that my weighting is extremely balanced and they do not hit my head BUT I can't reach them!

I am close to inverting but I need help!! What am I doing wrong? Am I just not dextrous enough?

My saving grace at present is that, as I always dive in buddy pairs, I can brief my buddy in what to do but, in reality, I want to be able to do it me'sen!

Any suggestions?

 

[Dominic]

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Well, the things that helped me:

Keep your elbows tucked right in. When you reach back, your elbows should literally be banging your head. That way your reach comes from your arm length, not your flexibility.

Invert YOURSELF when reaching - if you turn head-down, the cylinder weight will push the cylinders down, which means towards your head since you're upside down, and make them easier to reach.

Don't site your cylinders so that they're nicely balanced but out of reach. Site them where they need to be for you to reach them, however screwed that makes your balance. Then when you've got them well-placed, you start moving lead around until your trim is right - P-weights, V-weights and just weights cam-banded to your cylinder are all ways of doing this.
It's harder to do it this way round, but it's  the way it needs to be done.

And if you still can't reach them in your drysuit, but you can reach them in a wetsuit - the drysuit is probably cutting down your flexibility, and that's only fixable by replacing the suit

(Edited by Dominic at 8:26 am on May 17, 2002)

 

[Davey Willo]

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Donate them to me, problem fixed :biggrin:

If it was me Jay, I'd go with a slob knob for isolation purpose's, now I realise that this wouldn't allow you to breath from both bottles again after a problem, but it would allow you to isolate the offending leaking equipment and hopefully have enuff air for bail-out.

A halfway house I know, but at least its halfway, for I'm fairly sure a new suit, yoga lessons and the ability to scratch ones arse from over the shoulder are quite far away.

(Edited by Dave Williamson at 9:38 am on May 17, 2002)

 

[Dominic]

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I'd invert before I'd add a slob knob, myself - if you can't reach all three valves, a lot of benefits in your twinset vanish.
Besides, they have a nasty tendency not to work...

 

[Davey Willo]

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Hi Dom,

I have to agree about the lost benefits if not able to access all 3 valves..
But what if you can't, what if, as Jay has found, that you can't reach them with the valves at the top and what if you can't reach around to turn off the isolation valve when inverted?
I refer to this previous thread which I enjoyed reading again BTW...
Length of my hose (fnaar fnarr)

I'm still very curious as to what is the answer, and would love for someone with inverted, manifolded twins to put me out of my misery...

When fully kitted in drybag etc, can you reach all of the way around and not just reach, but actually turn completely on and completely off your middle isolation valve??

Regards
Dave
(Who's suffering from increasing levels of twinset envy)

 

[andy2tanx]

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Why dont you have a go with my kit Jay?

 

[divedog]

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Andy .. you got them inverted yet..and if you have how you finding them ... or have you got them set up in a way you can reach them

. Im not doing mine until I have the guard built to cover the valvle heads, Im using the design similar to the one you mailed me , thinking of modifying it a little to put rubber buffers between the valves and the top plate, might also get a bottle opener put on the back too !!
Did you get a hose for your Wing and how much did it cost you, do you have an auto air on it ??

Jay .. take up Yoga or get the Missus to flex you more in't bedroom dept !!

 

[andy2tanx]

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got it inverted and it works great!

Cost - 80 for valve protector, 70 for 3m, 2m, and 1m hose for wing.  Getting a backplate and manifold son, but independent at the mo.

Gotta be better than doing all the yoga.  call me a slob, thats fine!!

 

[Ammers]

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Echo Dom's comments, better off not chucking another piece of equipment to solve what is essentially a skill issue. It takes practice and technique to get to the valves. I would invert if I could not reach them. I was a lucky git and got my hands on the valves first time I tried, however my drysuit is too big around the shoulders, back and chest area, in fact it's just too big!

Dave, if you want to borrow my full rig indefinitely you can, I will shortly be moving over to sidemounts as the caves I'm working towards have passages which are far too small to get through with backmounts. I've tried already (lots of tank clanging)and it's not worth the risk of bursting pillar valves/manifold to squeeze through. I'll be probably using the sidemounts for lots of open water stuff too so I can get the configuration perfect. The backmount kit is yours to play with if you want it! Twin 7s, 232, isolating manifold, SS bands and Halcyon wing. I need to make a cave diving harness first so that will take me a few weeks to finish designing it, get the bits and then build it.

 

[Davey Willo]

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I love you.......... please marry me  :biggrin:

 

[parahandy]

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I can see the skills of dislocating both shoulder blades or arms will come in handy. Perhaps and hour on the rack will do?

??

 

[Hobby]

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I know a few people have asked about this and Andy has offered to let people use his twinverts.I've got a spare set that you(YD regulars)are more than welcome to use for a while if you want,you could take them on a trip and all have a go if you like.I've got another twin set that I use at present (not yet inverted) so it would'nt leave me without a set.However,I have'nt got a reg with longer hoses I can let you have so you'd have to sort one out,this set's configed.to take a longer hose at present,in fact it's a RN Sabre set as in that article in Dnet,but it's got the Sabre valves and config on it ie.no isolation knob on the manifold.You turn each cylinder on/off seperately,as said,there's no knob on the manifold,just a female DIN fitting(the RN beleive in having as few potential failure points as possible!) It's at Holyhead at present,but it's as new,in test,and "a proper bit of kit",if you fancy a play give me a shout.Regards,Hobby.

(Edited by Hobby at 10:43 am on May 20, 2002)


(Edited by Hobby at 10:52 am on May 20, 2002)

 

[Ammers]

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Dave, if I was the marrying kind I'd put you on the shortlist!!
:sofa:

 

[Davey Willo]

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Lol!!! Ahhh well... don't suppose the wife would of been too chuffed with it anyway...

Am I still alright for borrowing your kit when your ready? I'll look after it like it was family  :biggrin:

 

[Ammers]

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No worries. It IS family, those tanks are my babies!!

 

[Davey Willo]

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Thanks Ammers,

I'm completely gobsmacked by the people on this forum, I remember nearly falling thru the floor when Andy offered to let me take his twinset to Oban, and now you and Hobby offering gear... completely amazing...

Thanks everyone :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[Ammers]

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I guess it's because I have been helped along the way by an awful lot of people. I would like to pass that help on. It's not an easy sport in terms of financials. I was thinking about it last week in terms of the sheer amount of help that people have given me, i.e. advice, borrowing gear, even donating gear to the cause! Some great, great people have gone right out of their way to assist me in certain stuff. One day I will thank those people properly.

When I meet someone as keen as me I am desperate to help them in any way I can. That's down to love of the sport more than anything. I am itching to get my hands on some gear myself for more advanced stuff, waiting is so so hard!