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<font color='#0000FF'>I converted to a twinset early this season, the trouble is no matter how much i've practised I cant reach the isolation valve ("my arm aint long enough") so I have had to dive them as independants! At £90 I convinced myself that I would need a slobnob however for that cost I realised I have other options open to me. I'm now considering inverting the twins. My concern is damaging the first stages on my regs in this position, and i've heard all the cons about fitting the custom divers valve protectors (entanglement & difficulty in reaching the valves). I use Breathing Apparatus sets in the fire service which are all inverted and valve operation on them is a piece of cake but the first stages are protected by an extended backplate and hoses are neatly & permanently routed between the cylinder and backplate. If I could configure my scuba equipment like this it would be the perfect solution!

Further to this my Scubapro BCD uses its own twinset quick release connection system alleviating the need for bands but this means that the cylinders need to stay in their twin boot leaving me unsure whether I will get the right vertical adustment on the back (will they sit to high?).

Another problem that I have noticed (I use Apeks ATX200s) due to the angle the hose routings leave the first stage, the hoses crowd the area of the isolation valve, I take it by inverting the twins the isolation valve would be adjusted facing backwards instead of forwards as in the standard set up configuration? I've tried reducing the number of hoses but they still crowd the valves like a spaghetti junction!

Left Reg
Left Side
HP - To Console
Lp - Octopus
      BCD Inflator
Right Side
Lp - Drysuit Hose (Spare for single tank diving)
Lp - 2nd Stage

Right Reg
Right Side
Hp - Contents Guage
Lp - 2nd Stage
Lp - Drysuit Hose

So, Slob or Inversion? Any experience would be appreciated!
 

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darren

i use inverts and hav edone for some time.  call me and we can hav ea chat about it.  one ff to another!!

07779 834829
andy
 

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Darren

If you want to invert then that's your choice mate, and no doubt if you talk to Andy he'll have you spun round in no time but believe me when I tell you mate that unless you have had an injury or are crippled in some other way then you CAN reach your valves, everyone can...

So what's stopping you?? Well it could be one or more reasons but first while your reading this can you reach behind you and touch your second vertebrae?? Yes... good I thought you could.... right then, that means you can do shutdowns... no it does honest... whats stopping you could be a combination of cylinder position and or restrictive clothing.

I had to sell my suit to be able to reach mine... just like you I was totally convinced it wasn't going to happen, no matter how much I tried I couldn't get close... I'm known for being as supple as a building block, years of heavy training have left me with lots of injuries and I wrongly believed that this was effecting my ability to reach my valves.. I was wrong, it was simply a matter of getting the right undersuit/drysuit combo that allowed full movement, now shutdowns are a breeze, I can shut any valve in seconds and I haven't convoluted anything..

I'm not telling you that you shouldn't invert nor dive independants although I wouldn't suggest a slob knob at any cost (completely useless in the event of a free flow) but what I am suggesting is don't give up yet, try getting into the club pool if possible without your drysuit on and see if you can shutdown then, if so then you have proven to yourself that you are capable of doing it and that it's not a physical problem, once you've proven that you can then you need to identify if it's your undersuit or your drysuit or both thats restricting your movement..

I'll guarantee that you can do it Darren, if you really want to that is, but if you see the other options as easier then please feel free to go that way instead.

Anyway whatever you decide all of the very best of luck, kit transition can be a nightmare time

Regards
Dave.
 

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Hi,

I have to disagree with Dave on this one (sorry Dave), he and I have spoken about this, I can reach the knobs but I have another shoulder problem, hence I have a slob knob. This one has been gone around a few times but I find it allows me to isolate and shutdown in double quick time. It has to be said though if you can not reach the left and right post valves a slob knob is not going to help too much.

Generally it is true most people can reach there valves if the set is positioned correctly, inverting is an option, not one I would choose personally, but if you talk to A2T and SteveW both swear by it.

My answer would be to try it and see what you think. Also, try to raise the tanks up a smig and see if thea helps.

Andrew
 

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Ahhh but I did say unless he had an injury.... We both know you have one from trying to lift that wallet of yours...  
 

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Oh funny ha ha

Love you too,

Andrew

p.s. Just for your amusement, one of my X-Streams blew up on Sunday, the 1st stage diaphram went with a bang. Just so happens the importer is near my mum so I took it in, faulty materials apparently.
 

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<font color='#000080'>Hi Darren,

lots of good advice above, in the end there are pros & cons for every set up [except DIR apparently
 
 
] I inverted and have never regretted it once, I even managed to dive a few times from a rib this year with no bother.

If you ever fancy a dive midweek at stoney etc I would be more than happy to show you how I have setup my rig.

Safe diving,
Steve. an ex ff
 

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Dave

perhaps I'm being thick (its been said before), but why is a slob knob completely useless in the event of a free flow?

Roy
 

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And besides, reaching valves behind your shoulders is a lot slower than inverted valves everytime...
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Devon Diver @ Oct. 09 2003,10:20)]Dave

perhaps I'm being thick (its been said before), but why is a slob knob completely useless in the event of a free flow?

Roy
<font color='#810541'>Because you wouldn't isolate, you would just shut down the offending post.  
 

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Is there any chance you could post a picture of the inverted Breathing Apparatus rig?

I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to see how this works - there may be some useful crossover into diving.

Any chance?
 

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Hi Roy

A slob knob is usually connected to the central isolator allowing one to isolate the two cylinders from each other should you have a catastrophic gas loss from say a cylinder neck o-ring bursting (virtually unheard of) but to stop a first or second stage freeflow you would have to turn off the offending pillar valve, although I think it's feasable to have a slob knob on every valve but that would be bordering on crazy.

Andy.... next time we dive together mate I'm racing you on a valve shutdown.... I'll bet you can't beat me by more than a few seconds... definitely not enough to require having all of the convolutions in having the bloody things inverted, valve guards, custom length hoses etc etc.  

If you beat me by more than 3 seconds I'll buy the beer..
 

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next time at work I'll take some pics of the BA set and post them on here.  Dave, no chance pal.  Get your wallet out...
 

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I wouldn't need my wallet as I've seen what you're like on half a lager, pocket change would suffice, but anyway moot point cos you'll be buying..
 

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Here's piccies of Nigel Hewitts invert rig
http://www.combro.co.uk/nigelh/

i dunno about Andy2T's set up but with mine the isolator still points inwards (ie towards your arse) rather than outwards as NH's setup. Obviously to reach it I go "under" rather than "over" but it's not difficult.

Andy, you going to run a book on this wee competition? I know where my money will be

Inverts rule!
 

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I also have trouble reaching the valves when dry suited - I just practise hitching the cylinders up a few inches and then I can reach them OK. Undo one bayonet clip and the velcro waist band and I can hitch away.

I don't use a crutch strap so I don't know how badly that would affect the speed of my "solution" to the problem.

I don't remember if you mentioned this earlier but don't forget that, unlike the cylinder valves, the isolater valve on the manifold only needs to be opened by one turn (even a bit less).

Unless you particularly want to change your kit layout it may be worth giving this option a try. Obviously speed is of the essence in a shut down and you may be able to do the "hitch" in an acceptable time.
 

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This is precisely my reason for going inverted, if I get a free-flow I want to be able to shut down the offending valve in a heartbeat, not have to undo clips, straps and faff about hitching things up or down. Why make things harder than they have to be?

On a related note, someone (Mattbin perhaps?) was recently saying that apparently the only reason for tanks usually being "valve up" was due to the introduction of the original twin-hose regs with the 1st stage attached to the tank, this made the "normal" set up for breathing apparatus ie inverted, less desirable due to the length of the twin hoses. Perhaps our firefighting posters can supply more about the history of the early breathing apparatus? (apperatii?)
 

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and also, when inverted you don't need to shut the isolator down then the valve, you just go straight for the valve and close that.  unless you do that too dave?
 

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That's what DIR recommends - I personally would rather give my isolator a quick twist and know I have half my gas than furiously close my valves in the knowledge that if I don't I'll loose the lot.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Oct. 09 2003,14:11)]Why make things harder than they have to be?
Of course it is your choice on how you approach the subject -I merely suggested you try it before making any purchases.

The hitch method works, doesn't cost anything and is quick enough to use. Depending on your build/BCD etc you may be able to "hitch" without undoing anything. As I have relied on it, and of course, practised the hitch method of doing a shut down I don't really consider it "making it harder".

As regards to why make things harder well.... why go to the much greater trouble of altering your kit layout and spending a relatively large amount of money when it is unnecessary.

A last thought - I'll bet that in a real emergency you would be able to reach back further than you think you can.  
 
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