Imported post
A chap on the BSAC Forum just asked the following question:
"I know that this is an old topic, but I would be very greatfull for any information. I have been told that there may be problems in having your BSAC sports diver qualification accepted in some contries eg the Pacific area. Is this so , and is there anyway around it. Thanks."
So I felt I might offer the 'benefit' of my experience on the topic. Please feel free to discuss or offer your views on where I might be right or wrong.....
I came back with.....
"A question I hoped to never have to answer here on these boards...and some of you may disagree (duty/'opinion' bound and all that)...but I'm talking from 1st-hand experience here, and NOT just from mere opinion. Sorry if it hurts, but here we go....
In Feb 2000, my wife and I were on honeymoon on a 12-day dive gig in Sharm (after a couple of weeks going large in the bazaars, Pyramids and museums of Cairo and visiting the Valley's of the Kings, Queens and Nobles - both on foot and via a hot-air balloon - in Luxor). I hired a dive guide, whilst my wife was put through her PADI Open Water ticket.
On my 1st day in country, I was coupled for my 1st dive (Shark Bay, a shore dive, just out of Naama Bay) with two 'Instructors' - she a German PADI, he a BSAC.... and he lived and instructed in Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia - hence the BSAC attachment).
Bizarrely, he was informed, albeit he was a BSAC Instructor and had dived only four days before (as proffered by his cert cards & his log book), that he would have to do a 'Check Dive', to see if he was up to 'muster' - alas a PADI stricture; although, given his provable status and experience I still find this ridiculous and put it down to their all-pervading-paranoia and fear of getting sued. Such is the PADI creed – no acolyte of PADI (even after DM) is I.
Anyway, on the road trip to the site, we were chatting. The German female PADI instructor felt genuinely embarrassed and ill-at-ease at having to put him through this rigmarole, but stated that it had to be done to meet 'coverage' of her dive centre's insurance details: for that read, 'if you're not a PADI Diver carrying a PADI cert card of one descript or another, then you're going to get this treatment'.
He explained that it was truly OK, and he expected it as he'd met it everywhere else he'd dived on his trip travelling up from southern Africa.
He then went in to greater detail. He explained that BSAC in Zimbabwe was all but moribund/dead and that all his diving instructor oppos were/are transferring to PADI or NAUI - depending on the countries in to which they were then emigrating (Ozz, South Africa, UK, Egypt, USA, Maldives etc.) Why? I asked him.
"Because BSAC does not have the traction and attraction (user/customer-base) that PADI and NAUI have in the diving world outside the UK. Oh, you still get stalwart areas like Malta and a few areas in Cyprus; but try and get an instructor job any where in the wider world with a BSAC Instructor ticket and you've no chance – no demand for it" was his reply.
Now I've dived extensively in South Africa and never once found a PADI school - they're virtually all NAUI. I've also dived extensively in Ozz, and found that in certain areas NAUI have the predominance and others PADI have the upper hand. And with the 'cattle-boats' heading out of Cairns and Townsville now, you'll find that PADI have made significant headway in winning the hearts-n-minds of the dive centres there. You can still get BSAC recognition, but you have to look hard. The Zimbabwean Instructor explained to me that his oppos that had gone to Ozz (as most of them had), and had made the transition to PADI; as this way they could find a job and ready customers: ergo, a living; a living reflecting the demand from “world divers' expectance of what they learnt at home and expect in-country when they get there”.
I've got to say here that I'm not a member of BSAC (nor anymore PADI, given their “and the next ‘How to Breath Through a Regulator Course will be 贶’” approach), and consequently may attract some negative press and responses from some the readers here; all I can offer is the experience of my many travels abroad on missions to dive and found how BSAC diving is accepted.
What I am NOT saying is that you stop being a BSAC diver - the converse of my experiences above is that British divers abroad, in the main, get a whole-hearted 'look of relief' from ANY agency (and BSAC has to learn and understand that it IS just another diver training 'agency' in the eyes of the world and NOT a 'club' - just how parochial does ‘club’ look in the eyes of the world??) that either takes them off a boat or leads them from a shore as having some of the best trained and disciplined divers there is. BSAC's training methods are, on the whole, safety-based and 'place you anywhere and dive safely' centric. What they are not is a 'get us accepted globally as a legitimately recognised alternative to other agencies.........'
Drop the pretence to being a 'club'; unless, of course, BSAC want to be perceived as a bunch of UK-centric-only divers (CMAS is having the same issues BTW!! Who speaks French anymore and requires that its members adhere to 25 metres as a maximum depth?? And that's not a racist statement, more an issue of market reality over wishful thinking) that might like other places in the world, other than the ever receding former British colonies (and even they are now opting for mostly PADI, NAUI and TDI status and student training) to rally to their ever declining clarion call! Paying divers want (as with their working skills and qualifications) and globally transferable skill – not one that’s going to catch them in the ‘can I please see you cert card’ and ‘I’m sorry, you’re not PADI’ trap. VHS vs. BetaMax?? The irony being that BetaMax was/is recognised as being the better technology – they just lost the marketing/user-base battle…
I have a vested interest here: I have many friends that I dive with that have come up through the BSAC route and are f**king good divers – period: deep, wreck, mix, safety-driven, blue-water and all aspects in between. I do not want to see these levels of commitment to training (and the results it brings) suffer. And I don’t think I’m alone either.
I'll end this treatise here. I'm already interested in the response I might get from those that care about BSAC as I do. I've seen too many friends leave BSAC because of the reasons above; too many barrack-room lawyers in local club meetings offering nothing but their loud voice and nothing of substance to getting people diving; too many folk complaining about too few instructors – i.e. when they want to get trained, and not when the club can 'fit them in'; too few pool nights; too many Ober-leiunant DO's that organise trips to Stoney and the Cape (grand training grounds though they be!) and not enough 'proper dives' in the sea (shore or boat), if they go diving at all - the old adage I hear is 'lots of club meetings - not enough diving!'
No doubt there will be exceptions to the above - for God's sake there has to be, otherwise how would BSAC exist? - and I truly believe there are good clubs out there - but BSAC marketing has to get its act together and its ship in order so that the 'former BSAC divers' I meet stop feeding me this level of insider information.
BSAC claims to be 'the Governing Body of Diving in the UK’...Err.... please!
In terms of getting money, from grants from the Lottery Fund, it may have persuaded someone writing the cheques that this is the case; but does it honestly think that SSI, SSA, PADI, ScotSAC, TDI/SDI (and any of the other numerous SCUBA training agencies) THINK that is the case? Or that regardless of what BSAC might promote that it is going to have a ha'p'th of difference on what they teach in max depth, gas-mix or otherwise??? If BSAC labour under this delusion, then it is only damaging itself and its members. I didn't attend the DOC this year - due to work, I was going to (I was invited to) - but, looking at the agenda, I can only say that the bit I was most interested in is the section of 'BSAC and Inter-agency Co-operation'. There's that word again...’Agency’...
Sorry if this over-reached its mark on your original question, but unless BSAC and its forum (until I get banned from it for writing this) actually accepts the wider diving generality and sees the diving world for what it is (varied, and a many splendoured thing), then it shall be doomed to be reduced - a la BSAC Zimbabwe, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia et al. And before anyone from the 'Council' hits me with figures about BSAC's 'projected growth' in years to come, I'll just say that I'm in business and can read the play and that there are "lies, damned lies...and statistics'. Let's hope, for the larger benefit of BSAC, that some one wakes up and smells what they're shovelling.
Dive safe all.
Bren.
A chap on the BSAC Forum just asked the following question:
"I know that this is an old topic, but I would be very greatfull for any information. I have been told that there may be problems in having your BSAC sports diver qualification accepted in some contries eg the Pacific area. Is this so , and is there anyway around it. Thanks."
So I felt I might offer the 'benefit' of my experience on the topic. Please feel free to discuss or offer your views on where I might be right or wrong.....
I came back with.....
"A question I hoped to never have to answer here on these boards...and some of you may disagree (duty/'opinion' bound and all that)...but I'm talking from 1st-hand experience here, and NOT just from mere opinion. Sorry if it hurts, but here we go....
In Feb 2000, my wife and I were on honeymoon on a 12-day dive gig in Sharm (after a couple of weeks going large in the bazaars, Pyramids and museums of Cairo and visiting the Valley's of the Kings, Queens and Nobles - both on foot and via a hot-air balloon - in Luxor). I hired a dive guide, whilst my wife was put through her PADI Open Water ticket.
On my 1st day in country, I was coupled for my 1st dive (Shark Bay, a shore dive, just out of Naama Bay) with two 'Instructors' - she a German PADI, he a BSAC.... and he lived and instructed in Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia - hence the BSAC attachment).
Bizarrely, he was informed, albeit he was a BSAC Instructor and had dived only four days before (as proffered by his cert cards & his log book), that he would have to do a 'Check Dive', to see if he was up to 'muster' - alas a PADI stricture; although, given his provable status and experience I still find this ridiculous and put it down to their all-pervading-paranoia and fear of getting sued. Such is the PADI creed – no acolyte of PADI (even after DM) is I.
Anyway, on the road trip to the site, we were chatting. The German female PADI instructor felt genuinely embarrassed and ill-at-ease at having to put him through this rigmarole, but stated that it had to be done to meet 'coverage' of her dive centre's insurance details: for that read, 'if you're not a PADI Diver carrying a PADI cert card of one descript or another, then you're going to get this treatment'.
He explained that it was truly OK, and he expected it as he'd met it everywhere else he'd dived on his trip travelling up from southern Africa.
He then went in to greater detail. He explained that BSAC in Zimbabwe was all but moribund/dead and that all his diving instructor oppos were/are transferring to PADI or NAUI - depending on the countries in to which they were then emigrating (Ozz, South Africa, UK, Egypt, USA, Maldives etc.) Why? I asked him.
"Because BSAC does not have the traction and attraction (user/customer-base) that PADI and NAUI have in the diving world outside the UK. Oh, you still get stalwart areas like Malta and a few areas in Cyprus; but try and get an instructor job any where in the wider world with a BSAC Instructor ticket and you've no chance – no demand for it" was his reply.
Now I've dived extensively in South Africa and never once found a PADI school - they're virtually all NAUI. I've also dived extensively in Ozz, and found that in certain areas NAUI have the predominance and others PADI have the upper hand. And with the 'cattle-boats' heading out of Cairns and Townsville now, you'll find that PADI have made significant headway in winning the hearts-n-minds of the dive centres there. You can still get BSAC recognition, but you have to look hard. The Zimbabwean Instructor explained to me that his oppos that had gone to Ozz (as most of them had), and had made the transition to PADI; as this way they could find a job and ready customers: ergo, a living; a living reflecting the demand from “world divers' expectance of what they learnt at home and expect in-country when they get there”.
I've got to say here that I'm not a member of BSAC (nor anymore PADI, given their “and the next ‘How to Breath Through a Regulator Course will be 贶’” approach), and consequently may attract some negative press and responses from some the readers here; all I can offer is the experience of my many travels abroad on missions to dive and found how BSAC diving is accepted.
What I am NOT saying is that you stop being a BSAC diver - the converse of my experiences above is that British divers abroad, in the main, get a whole-hearted 'look of relief' from ANY agency (and BSAC has to learn and understand that it IS just another diver training 'agency' in the eyes of the world and NOT a 'club' - just how parochial does ‘club’ look in the eyes of the world??) that either takes them off a boat or leads them from a shore as having some of the best trained and disciplined divers there is. BSAC's training methods are, on the whole, safety-based and 'place you anywhere and dive safely' centric. What they are not is a 'get us accepted globally as a legitimately recognised alternative to other agencies.........'
Drop the pretence to being a 'club'; unless, of course, BSAC want to be perceived as a bunch of UK-centric-only divers (CMAS is having the same issues BTW!! Who speaks French anymore and requires that its members adhere to 25 metres as a maximum depth?? And that's not a racist statement, more an issue of market reality over wishful thinking) that might like other places in the world, other than the ever receding former British colonies (and even they are now opting for mostly PADI, NAUI and TDI status and student training) to rally to their ever declining clarion call! Paying divers want (as with their working skills and qualifications) and globally transferable skill – not one that’s going to catch them in the ‘can I please see you cert card’ and ‘I’m sorry, you’re not PADI’ trap. VHS vs. BetaMax?? The irony being that BetaMax was/is recognised as being the better technology – they just lost the marketing/user-base battle…
I have a vested interest here: I have many friends that I dive with that have come up through the BSAC route and are f**king good divers – period: deep, wreck, mix, safety-driven, blue-water and all aspects in between. I do not want to see these levels of commitment to training (and the results it brings) suffer. And I don’t think I’m alone either.
I'll end this treatise here. I'm already interested in the response I might get from those that care about BSAC as I do. I've seen too many friends leave BSAC because of the reasons above; too many barrack-room lawyers in local club meetings offering nothing but their loud voice and nothing of substance to getting people diving; too many folk complaining about too few instructors – i.e. when they want to get trained, and not when the club can 'fit them in'; too few pool nights; too many Ober-leiunant DO's that organise trips to Stoney and the Cape (grand training grounds though they be!) and not enough 'proper dives' in the sea (shore or boat), if they go diving at all - the old adage I hear is 'lots of club meetings - not enough diving!'
No doubt there will be exceptions to the above - for God's sake there has to be, otherwise how would BSAC exist? - and I truly believe there are good clubs out there - but BSAC marketing has to get its act together and its ship in order so that the 'former BSAC divers' I meet stop feeding me this level of insider information.
BSAC claims to be 'the Governing Body of Diving in the UK’...Err.... please!
In terms of getting money, from grants from the Lottery Fund, it may have persuaded someone writing the cheques that this is the case; but does it honestly think that SSI, SSA, PADI, ScotSAC, TDI/SDI (and any of the other numerous SCUBA training agencies) THINK that is the case? Or that regardless of what BSAC might promote that it is going to have a ha'p'th of difference on what they teach in max depth, gas-mix or otherwise??? If BSAC labour under this delusion, then it is only damaging itself and its members. I didn't attend the DOC this year - due to work, I was going to (I was invited to) - but, looking at the agenda, I can only say that the bit I was most interested in is the section of 'BSAC and Inter-agency Co-operation'. There's that word again...’Agency’...
Sorry if this over-reached its mark on your original question, but unless BSAC and its forum (until I get banned from it for writing this) actually accepts the wider diving generality and sees the diving world for what it is (varied, and a many splendoured thing), then it shall be doomed to be reduced - a la BSAC Zimbabwe, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia et al. And before anyone from the 'Council' hits me with figures about BSAC's 'projected growth' in years to come, I'll just say that I'm in business and can read the play and that there are "lies, damned lies...and statistics'. Let's hope, for the larger benefit of BSAC, that some one wakes up and smells what they're shovelling.
Dive safe all.
Bren.
