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In a situation whaere YOU surfaced with joint pain after a dive what would you do??

DD
 

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I would have made the call. I have done so before, perhaps for less obvious symptoms, but I did not have them before the dive.

Perhaps 'joint pain' is a little easy to decide on, taking into account 'did the pain exist before the dive'.

There are people on this site who have had bends. I have been involved in the treatment of one. I suspect some of those who have suffered thought it was something else at first. In the incident I was part of, I/we were going through the 'strained something/denial' phase when the pain became loss of limb use along with pins and needles. No messing about then I can assure you.

There are many reports of bends around now. The most common apsect IMO is the denial bit. It is put up as a symptom in the courses, but you WILL go through it when you are involved in an incident. You won't want to believe the worst. If we can accept we will go through denial, perhaps we can work on methods to reduce the 'Time to belief' and thus start the First Aid this is required. It's all very well saying denial is a symptom, but in reality you will deny that the denial even exists - certainly for a time.

Cor I appear to have gone on a bit.

Adrian
 

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Take an Aspirin and a Neurofen tablet.

Aspirin thins the blood (good for off gassing and the Neurofen is an anti inflammatory so will reduce normal joint pains.

Seriously I am 40 I surface with aches and pains all over the sodding place. I usually get bruises too. I have to make a mental list of which bits hurt before I jump in just so I can tell if there are any new ones when I get out.

What would I do if I felt in any way concerned?

Get on the 02 and see if it clears up. If it does fine. All the divers I have met who were bent knew it straight away with joint pains.

Neuro hits are a bit more subtle and those are the ones that scare me. If I got a funny head after a dive I would hit the 02 and get my buddy to do the neuro test procedure on me. If I still felt a bit weird I would head straight for Whips cross. I have actually done this twice since I started diving. Once I was sent home and the second time I went in the pot but it turned out to be a carbon monoxide hit.

ATB

Mark Chase
 

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I usually carry my 7L filled with 100% O2 so I'd suck on that for twenty minutes and see if the pain goes away, if it does see if it comes back with normal air, if it does get straight onto the dog 'n' bone

Earlier this year i woke up with a tingling in my arm and did just this, the tingling was still there so I went ahead with diving, I'd been sleeping in a sleeping bag and must have been lying on my arm
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Mark Chase @ Oct. 29 2003,18:43)]Neuro hits are a bit more subtle and those are the ones that scare me.
Mark

The one I was involved with was a neuro/spinal bend. The first symptom I would describe as a 'stitch' like you might get after running. Thats the best I can translate it as it was not me suffering and I don't know the level of pain. Then his leg went numb and he could not push back. 3 days in and out of the pot. He has found he has a PFO which, as there did not seem to be any other cause, may be the culprit. I had a good bunch to work with on the rib. All the training we had just clicked into place. Just one error on our part, forgetting to administer a little water.

And the standard D size o2 cylinders from BOC are just too damn small.

Adrian
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Oct. 29 2003,18:46)]I usually carry my 7L filled with 100% O2 so I'd suck on that for twenty minutes and see if the pain goes away, if it does see if it comes back with normal air, if it does get straight onto the dog 'n' bone

Earlier this year i woke up with a tingling in my arm and did just this, the tingling was still there so I went ahead with diving, I'd been sleeping in a sleeping bag and must have been lying on my arm
Steve

I recall that our BSAC O2 training says that if we administer O2 then we make that phone call. We have already decided something is amis. Pain goes away / comes back - you have delayed treatment.

BSAC / 100% O2 ?


Adrian
 

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All i got was a slight niggle in my left shoulder, as if my t-shirt was bunched up around my arm.  I knew it was a bend and got straight on O2 but i still went rapidly down hill.   An hour isn't enough once it starts messing with your brain.  My wife knew what the routine was and went straight into nurse mode.  Their was no way i would've made it to the pot if i'd got all macho and decided i'd do it on my own.  Get on the phone as soon as you think there is a problem, they can't shoot you for a false alarm.
 

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Hi all,

I ticked the RN Doc, but i would have administered O2 and called the BSAC DCI Hotline or the Coastguard subject to a bit more on the symptoms. I would also have laid flat and avoided any moving around.

Like Mark i am in my 40's and aches and pains are a way of life with me, same as sweat rashes from the Neoprene in the Summer. I am very aware of denial, but if i called the Coastguard everytime i had a symptom i would fly back from nearly every dive.

Dive Safe

Paul
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Thought you did Paul,,,,,,,,, oh no, you told me you dive out the other RIB , sorry.

I'm also in the same boat ( No pun intended ) as Paul and Mark.

Outside work, i would make the call to the RN, Haslar myself .

at work

Let my dive supervisor use his mobile phone for once, just to prove to him that credit doesn't wear down monthly if not used
 

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I would call the coastguard but i have never experienced a bend or been with someone who has...
jules
 

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Doug,

How did you know it was a bend form just a wee niggle?  Like Mark I usually end the day with the odd bump and pain.  Comes from doing a desk job that doesn't stretch many muscles I think.  As soon as I do some real work I get aches!

So interested to know whether you had other clues.  Were you suspect of your profile, was it because you had damaged the shoulder previously, andything thing like that.

Cheers

Lou
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dangerous Diver @ Oct. 29 2003,18:26)]In a situation whaere YOU surfaced with joint pain after a dive what would you do??

DD
<font color='#000080'>Stub the joint out quickly before it goes and burns a hole in my drysuit.
 

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If I surfaced with a joint pain and thought it was a bend I would be on O2 in a flash and on the radio to the CG screaming for a yellow taxi pronto.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
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I believe I know what to do in a situation where I had a bend.  T he scary thing is for any diver is what if YOU cant make the decision for urself sure there will be people there to help you but it is always at the back of your mind.  I never have and hopefuly will never suffer a bend or similar diving related problem.  Being young it may be seasier to realise the difference between a bend and a joint pain even though even me at this age has caves joints.  The thing I don't look forward to if i do get a bend is the aftermath of it I.E the mother.

anyway ive blabbed on for a bit.....sorry about that.  Keep posting it is very interesing to see what people would do if it was a situation where they were the victim not someone else.


thanks  

DD
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Adrian Kelland @ Oct. 29 2003,19:17)]I recall that our BSAC O2 training says that if we administer O2 then we make that phone call. We have already decided something is amis. Pain goes away / comes back - you have delayed treatment.

BSAC / 100% O2 ?


Adrian
 Yeah, i know what you mean about 100%, suppose the BSAC forum wouldn't be the place to advertise that's wha I use for my 6m stop  


Hmmm... I'm going to have to check my O2 Admin Inst. notes now as I can't remember the "use O2 make the call" rule, and if it is a "rule" then IMO it's wrong.  

In fact I got pretty vexed when, during the summer, I was on a charter boat out of Swanage and the skipper said one of his rules was that if he has to crack open the O2 then he's calling the chopper and it's non-negotiable.

Now, factor that in with the oft-quoted "denial" in DCI and whadda ya get? Divers twice as likely to go into denial with minor symptoms, which have a 3:1 chance of becoming major symptoms. I thought it was a very dangerous approach.

For those who want a bigger O2 supply, SAP make and sell a DIN to O2 fitting adaptor, so you can buy e.g. a 10 or 12L O2 clean tank and presto!  "Bob's your auntie's live in lover"  
tons of O2 if required
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Oct. 30 2003,11:37)]In fact I got pretty vexed when, during the summer, I was on a charter boat out of Swanage and the skipper said one of his rules was that if he has to crack open the O2 then he's calling the chopper and it's non-negotiable.
I was in just this position last year with someone who had a minor bend.
He wasn't sure whether he had a problem or not and i didn't know him well enough to judge from the little he was saying (most people I dive with would not be reticent about coming forward) and I am of the opinion that if there is a problem that needs O2 then the CG gets called, it can always be cancelled later if it turns out to be a false alarm.
 What came out of it is that now if even anybody thinks of needing O2 the CG gets called even if they subsequently decide there is no problem as this guy did. (later on there was a problem and he ended up in the chamber that day, the symptoms got worse enough that he couldn't deny it anymore)
 In hindsight the thought that the CG would be called if he thought he needed O2 put him off the idea and this was a mistake as we took him at his word there was no problem. The next time the question won't be asked, if someone "thinks" there may be a problem then the whole process starts till we know better. better safe than sorry.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Steve W @ Oct. 30 2003,11:37)]Hmmm... I'm going to have to check my O2 Admin Inst. notes now as I can't remember the "use O2 make the call" rule, and if it is a "rule" then IMO it's wrong.
 

I think the issue is along the lines of;

You have decided the problem requires a first aid treatment of O2. Now are you competant enough to decide that that treatment is no longer required? Just because the sympton has gone, doesn't mean the problem has. In other words 'seek advice'.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]In fact I got pretty vexed when, during the summer, I was on a charter boat out of Swanage and the skipper said one of his rules was that if he has to crack open the O2 then he's calling the chopper and it's non-negotiable.

Now, factor that in with the oft-quoted "denial" in DCI and whadda ya get? Divers twice as likely to go into denial with minor symptoms, which have a 3:1 chance of becoming major symptoms. I thought it was a very dangerous approach.
Perhaps the skipper would have been better to keep his mouth shut. I have come across the same issues. Although there are those who would ask for O2 as a result of thenight before. The reaction is as much down to us, the skipper may have been indicating that he would not mess about deciding if a bend was real or not. If you have gone on O2, you have decide the problem exists.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]For those who want a bigger O2 supply, SAP make and sell a DIN to O2 fitting adaptor, so you can buy e.g. a 10 or 12L O2 clean tank and presto!  "Bob's your auntie's live in lover"  
tons of O2 if required
I know this now, but at the time, it came as a surprise how quick the cylinder emptied.

They've been married for some time
 

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Aye, there's good arguments for both sides of the coin, this is why I prefer to have my own supply and make decisions about my health on my own recogniscence. In a Dive Marshalling situation I believe I'd administer the O2 and take further advice by phone, but not necessarily assume that an airlift is going to be mandatory.
 

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Tricky question that - I posted one myself not long ago questioning "would you know if you were suffering a minor DCI" - I am not sure that I would.

I always ache after diving (office work/twin set + deco etc/older) and I am not sure I would be able to tell a minor DCI if it happened.

If in no doubt of having DCI then straight onto to the O2 whilst someone phones the CG is what I would like to see.

If minor/unsure I would do the O2 for a while and phone the pot people for advice. If needed I would then drive myself to the nearest pot, if feasible - hopefully with a fellow diver as a passenger.

I honestly don't think denial is a big problem - certainly not with anyone I dive with, more a case of wanting to be sure.

I voted give it an hour.

'kin useless nitrogen.  
 

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<font color='#FF0000'>I know what I should do if I had the symptoms, please read the horror of what I actually did !

The denial point about having a bend is very apt. I had a bend earlier this year
and I apologise in advance for the way I treated it.

1. Dive 1 - On the Volnay in Cornwall, 45 minutes after the dive pain in the shoulder and an itchy back. I put the first down to carrying my cylinder and the second to a new undersuit.

2. Dive 2 - 14 metres scallop hunt, 45 minutes after the dive pain in the shoulder, 15 minutes later the pain is moving slowly up my arm, tingling etc and my brain is now kicking into gear.

3. Self treat with O2 for 30 minutes and the pain subsides - I think I know what's up but I don't tell anyone

4. Stay on O2 for another 30 minutes, shower and head for the bar ( I know, I know)

5. Drive home next morning, past Plymouth (I know, I know)

6. Call for advice on Monday, go back to Plymouth and leave two days later after two sessions in the pot. with a diagnosed bend.

My advice has always been call the DDRC if ever in doubt but when it's you sometimes you just don't believe it's happened to you.

So please don't do as I did, make the call they don't mind. I was lucky don't push yours !

Be safe
 
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