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What would you do? - uncertified diver

  • No way.

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Hypothetically...

If a friend of yours asked you to take her for a dive, just for the experience what would you say?


Obviously I don't mean anything 'deep' but a 4/5m bimble at beach you know reasonably well.

I'm interested to see how many people come down on the side of "Legal implications, Agency Rules, Not worth it" and how many people would think "It's a democracy, as long as she knows what she getting into she cant do much damage in 4m"



Ps: Obviously your own qualification would be relevant to decision so let's say you were AOW or Rescue Diver.
 

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No Way.

Sorry, and it's got bugger-all to do with the legality or possible short-comings for me in the event of an accident - coz by that stage it's too late for the other poor sod who might be bent or dead and couldn't give a monkey's what happens to me as a result.

I'm a Rescue Diver with a fair bit of diving experience all over the world; if ever faced with this question I know plenty of instructors who'd be happy to take the job on and then every one is covered to one degree or another.

And the depth is largely a misnomer too: there are plenty of reported case of divers making rapid ascents for the six metre platforms at both Stoney and the Cape - and ending up dead as a result. It's the last 10 metre range of any dive which is the most lethal in terms of ascent.

For me, all the smarts tell me to, to coin a phrase, 'Do It Right'.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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As far as I know there is no law against it as long as you’re doing it for free. I dived uncertified for Nitrox, uncertified for Trimix etc. My only concern was personal life insurance for next of kin.

I am now TDI Trimix qualified but I have no formal rescue or instructor training past my own personal self taught medical knowledge and knowledge of the risks associated with diving.

I would take an unqualified ADULT diving no problem. I would have to see them use a snorkel mask and flippers but if they displayed confidence with that kit in deep water I would haply take them down to say 10m on something like the Far Mulberry or Chesel Beech after a few basic skills in the shallows or in a pool.

Lets face it that’s what I did on my first ever dive. A few skills kneeling on the bottom in 2m of water then out on to the reef in St Lucia. No computer no timer just a depth gauge and we went to 20m (60ft to be precise)?
? That was in 1989.

I would want to see:

Their eyes
Their breathing
A flooded mask clearance
Regulator swapping to my long hose and back
And a basic understanding of how the bcd worked.

If the person could demonstrate these skills and they didn’t look like they were about to freak I would take them out in minimum 5m viz on a dive that I knew like the back of my hand.

I think its only in the last year of diving that I felt confident enough to do this. One must be totally in control of their own diving before they can envisage dealing with someone else’s problems. When I first started diving with my wife and she got in a mess I would get my self in a mess trying to help her. Now I can deal with her little problems without my own materialising so I feel ready to help others. Being qualified to do so is a secondary issue.

ATB

Mark Chase
 

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Hi Crevis

The scenario is key in this. I take people on try dives all the time to 4m 'cos thats how deep our pool is. Not sure about doing it open water, but i would have to look at the location and person.

I imagine this would happen quite a lot in resorts, with nice clear water etc.

However at the skills levels you outline i would have doubts. As an Open Water Instructor and Advanced Diver with a reasonable amount of experience at these levels, and having done lots of try dives i probably have the experience to make it happen OK.

Don't forget that the shallow depths involve the larger air expansion so there is a very big potential problem here with a panicing diver bolting for the surface.

BSAC 3rd party insurance covers me taking try dives, and i am quite sure there is no depth restriction on it. Min qual to take it is Sport Diver and Assistant Instructor.

Dive Safe

Paul
 

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Hang on,

Are you guys saying their NOT called Flippers and Goggles?

Paul
 

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Numpty!

If you get confused now, there's no hope for you!

It's flippers and goggles.  

You'll be putting your oxygen tanks on upside down next!!!



Actually, I hear there are many places in the Spanish resorts where they take you in for a trial dive to 5m with the briefest of explanations.  

As long as they are sensible and closely monitored, I've got no problem.  There is absolutely no law saying you have to do any training whatsoever.  

How about showing your buddy how to fly his brand new drysuit, fresh from the dive show?
 

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wibble
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<font color='#000080'>Oh ive been a muff diver for many a year
I spent all my money on muff diving gear
My snorkel my goggles, my muff diving tank
when im not diving im having a w..............



 

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Why not just let the instructors do the training.  I don't keep an eye on divers let alone some twat who thinks he wants to be one.  Maybe i haven't got a training head  

If it was up to me they wouldn't be allowed to dive until they'd done a course somewhere else.

That's where BSAC goes wrong.   Don't let them in until they can dive already.  Saves poncing about training.  I didn't join a club to help the next lot of trainees.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Porg @ Feb. 03 2004,21:17)]Oh ive been a muff diver for many a year
I spent all my money on muff diving gear
My snorkel my goggles, my muff diving tank
when im not diving im having a w..............



......arrant served on me?  
 

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To dive or not to dive - that's not even an option
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Don't do it.

If you don't know the difference between right and wrong you shouldn't even be diving.

Here is an example of some of the divers that thought they knew best, but didn't!

James

 

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No ta.   I like being irresponsible with no-one to worry about but li'l ol' me.  Did the DM thing and bloody hated it, shitting meself the whole time wondering what the nuggets were going to do next.

DISCLAIMER: I was once a nugget too (OI Finless SHUT IT) and I have nothing but respect for DMs & Instructors, I just don't want the responsibility.  Even in 4m.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (dan @ Feb. 03 2004,20:45)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]flippers
FINS!!!!!  

Oh bugger there goes my last shred of credabuility


Mark Chase
 

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As an Instructor, I'd do it.
As a Rescue Diver?  Nah.  All the DM and Instructor course stuff is designed to get you watching for potential problems before they happen.

Actually, even as an Instructor in the UK it could be a problem.  You might not have surface support which I believe is required by HSE and you could get into some serious legal sh1t if anything goes wrong.  Like a manslaughter charge. Besides possibly losing a friend of course.

My first dive was in Rhodes about 12 years ago.  They looked at us and handed out gear.  Asked us to stick our faces in the water 'til we were happy then off we went to 6m.
In those conditions and happily oblivious of the potential risks it was a very unstressful experience.
 

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That's Dude with an E
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Mark Chase @ Feb. 03 2004,22:36)]Oh bugger there goes my last shred of credabuility


Mark Chase
Mark, did you have any to start with?  
 

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old time
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<font color='#0000FF'>Fins = UMPD ( I'll let you all wrk that one out )  or better known as Engines.
1/2 mask = Scooby bins.
AGA = Ugly cu*t.


Now, back to the question,,,,,,,,,,, I'll take anyone in for a dip, just as long as my spare AGA fit's them , BRIEFING consists of JUST BREATHE NORMALLY,


Andy,

ps  Doug , you are so right
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Why not just let the instructors do the training.  I don't keep an eye on divers let alone some twat who thinks he wants to be one.  Maybe i haven't got a training head  
never a better phrase.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]That's where BSAC goes wrong.   Don't let them in until they can dive already.  Saves poncing about training.  I didn't join a club to help the next lot of trainees.
  One of the reasons that i left,, i'm to under quailified for their high standards .

Tonight for instance , 2 diver took the SPORTS DIVER MULTI GUESS EXAM, what a bloody joke , the new questions need ripping up and burnt .......
 

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<font color='#000080'>done the same sort of thing many a time on tropical reefs.

can you breathe? yes. can you swim? yes. right, off we go.

mask clear and clear ears in shallow water, don't-hold-your-breath then off for a bimble. if the novice is watched like a hawk by an instructor/divemaster all the time then there's no problem.

so i'm not going to defend the viewpoint that you must have full training before going for a dive.

however, i don't really think i'd do it in this country, off my own bat - i just think i'd be uncomfortable with the idea. partly because of HSE regulations etc, but mainly because in almost all UK diving situations i would be able to think of something that could go wrong - currents, cold, difficult entry/exit, perhaps no surface support. if the conditions were completely swimming-pool-like, then i'd consider it.

i've put no, because as a rescue diver/AOW i'd say definitely not.
 
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