[Finless]

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Whilst down at Plymouth recently one of our group knocked his new and expensive HID torch over the side of the boat (plonker) whilst kitting up ready to dive the Rose Hill.

On my return to Bexhill I phoned my Plymouth diver friend as I suspected the torch was on the wreck BUT the vis was so poor when we were there we would've had to swim right over it to find it.

It turns out that it has now been found BUT the finder wants to keep it for himself despite the torch being clearly marked with the owners name and being made aware that the owner is a friend of a friend of a local diver.

Am I naive in my thoughts that divers are an honest bunch. Something to do with all facing the same risks and knowing how expensive dive kit is etc etc.

Even if I am naive, whoever you are, I fart in your general direction and I hope some of it gets into your next fill!

I am not looking forward to taking that back if he does the, what I believe to be, decent thing!

 

[Fathoms Down]

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Quote[/b] (Finless @ April 26 2004,11:19)]It turns out that it has now been found BUT the finder wants to keep it for himself despite the torch being clearly marked with the owners name and being made aware that the owner is a friend of a friend of a local diver.

There are total scrotes in all sports but its a sad day when they start diving.  

 

[Nath]

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<font color='#8D38C9'>return it whatever it is

it's free beer at least

thats well bad form keeping something like that

 

[Garf]

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Kit is expensive enough without theft. I'd do everything I possibly could to return it, as I can imagin ehow gutted I'd be if I lost something.

 

[Phoenix]

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Would have to say "other" as I dive in resort areas and trying to find owner not so easy. If I heard the owner was looking for the kit I would return it though (as with Mosquito I found last year)

A friend of mine is a DM on a liveaboard and recently he had a customer drop a Light & Motion Mako housing with a Sony PC120 camera, they weren't able to recover it as were on safety stop anyway. My friend went back to same site the next week and recovered the housing and it is working fine. He could have contacted the owner but he knew the owner was going to claim on insurance on return to the US and the price of shipping would have exceeded any policy excess so what would you have had him do?

ps. same DM even found his previous Digital Camera & housing - lucky sod.

Ian

NB. I have the same camcorder and housing but I have a receipt!!!

 

[AndrewRawlingson]

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Name and shame the scumbag!!  

 

[Bantam]

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I'm just checking with a mate who's a lawyer, but I'm sure that the situation is;

The torch is still the property of the owner, even if lost. If found, *reasonable* steps should be taken to return the property to the owner if it is marked as such (which it is).

Failure to return the item classes it as stolen goods, so the person who lost it should report it to the police as lost.
As for his mate, if he has an idea who has it (or someone else does) it's actually a criminal offence in aiding and abetting a criminal for one of them not to return it to the owner

I think the proper thing to do is if it's difficult to find the owner (so no postcode or owt) then hand it into the local cop shop. They usually give the owner 90 days (or maybe less) to claim it, after which time they'll give you a call and you can keep it.

I'd try to persuade him to return it to the owner.

 

[Digger]

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<font color='#000080'>Well, depends where and who it is, and how long it's going to take to get it back to them. I'd try the usual lines of enquiry for just about anything bigger than a snorkel, but I'm not going to spend a week of my time trawling every diving website in the country. It'll go on Divernet, UKDiving and here probably, but if no-one's coming forward it's going in the dive bag.

That said, if someone told me they knew whose it was, I'd get it back to them no matter what it is. It obviously matters to them.

Digs.

 

[turbanator]

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Putting aside the moral side of things.

I thought everything belonged to someone, is the torch not covered by wreck rules, so it either belongs to your friend, who, if the finder is really mercenary, could be expected to pay a 'fair' price for the 'salvage', or it belongs to the insurance company in they have paid out, then it's up to them if they want to deal with the finder.

Strictly, should not the finder fill in a declaration?

That said, it is bad form if the finder knows who the loser was and refuses to return it.

 

[Digger]

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<font color='#000080'>Doesn't law vary a bit with finding things at the bottom of the sea? Things like salvage rights and so on? If he were to find it in he street it's a bit different to finding it on a site. Don't know the technicalities, but I'm sure someone round here will.

 

[Bantam]

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Quote[/b] (Digger @ April 26 2004,11:42)]Doesn't law vary a bit with finding things at the bottom of the sea?

I think it may do. I'm waiting for my mate to get back to me so we can have a definitive answer on it! (Unless someone else can beat me to it!!).

 

[Lou]

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Being honest small, unmarked things like snorkels, knives etc would be an ask around and see if practical, but otherwise into the bag.  They are the sort of items I wouldn't expect anyone else to hand in if I lost it either, but would expect a shout from another boat if someone found it.  You know "have any of your guys lost a mask?  If so, what's it like?"  - and hand over if you get a match.

Anything with a postcode will get returned if at all possible, or handed into a cop shop if not.

Anything that has cost an arm and a leg will get handed into a cop shop marked or not.  Then if I get it back it is my lucky day and I have a clear conscience over it.  If the owner gets it back then great!

For this guy to keep it, even without knowing who it belongs to is pretty low.  To keep it knowing who lost it is plain immoral and the guy deserves a visit from the local plod to remind him of the value of being an honest citizen.

LOu

 

[turbanator]

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Quote[/b] (Bantam @ April 26 2004,11:46)]

Quote[/b] (Digger @ April 26 2004,11:42)]Doesn't law vary a bit with finding things at the bottom of the sea?

I think it may do. I'm waiting for my mate to get back to me so we can have a definitive answer on it! (Unless someone else can beat me to it!!).

It seems quite complicated, see :-

http://www.bmla.org.uk/annual_report/rep_marine_clark.htm

I think I'll wait for your friend's reply  

 

[Finless]

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I too am unsure (as in "know nothing") of the technicalities of loss/salvage etc. My point is that this person (of whom I know absolutely nothing - no name/club etc) is aware that the owner of the torch is known.

Indeed, in retrospect, maybe it s/b the numpty that lost the item who should make the effort to contact local clubs etc to let it be known that an item has been lost/appreciated if found and returned.

In fact, I don't know why I am so wound up about it. It isn't my torch and it isn't the "loser of" that made the enquiries in case it was found. The subject just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth (I'm a lager drinker too!).

 

[narkynorma]

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<font color='#0000FF'>I may be really naive when I say this, but if it was me, I would try my utmost to return whatever I had found, particularly in this case.  
Whenever I have found something when diving I have ALWAYS returned it to the owner, no matter how small.
Obviously you don't always know the owner, but that shouldn't make a difference, you should at least try.

In this case it should definitely be handed into the police, and then if it doesn't get claimed, as said before, you have a clear conscience.  If it does you may be cross that you gave it back, but at the end of the day you haven't forked out for it, so why should you get to keep it (no matter how careless the owner)?

If I lost something valuable I'd definitely hope that it would be handed in for me.  And the fact that the person in this case knows that the owner is looking for it is even worse.

Grrrrrrrr.

People who keep other people's stuff when they know it doesn't belong to them make me very cross!!!

Hope everything gets sorted ASAP.

Just off to polish my halo  

 

[MATTBIN]

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Found an un-marked hood in the carpark at Stoney, still very wet, saw some divers obviously just finished a dive and asked if it was theirs, happy to return it to its rightfull owner.
Regardless of legalities/salvage etc, the decent moral thing to do is try and return it to its rightful owner, or am I just an old fashioned out of touch person. I would always try and get it back to the owner. Not doing that is wrong. Doesnt matter if its diving related or not.

Name and shame time I think.

Matt

 

[Noel Johnson]

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I'd try and locate the owner even if it wasn't marked, but as Lou said, clips, snorkels and knives etc are pretty fair game

 

[John Gulliver]

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I'd go along with Lou here.

 

[hazey]

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But in the end of the day - all dive kit belongs to the sea.  We only have it on loan till the sea claims it back.

 

[Bantam]

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Quote[/b] (hazey @ April 26 2004,12:33)]But in the end of the day - all dive kit belongs to the sea.  We only have it on loan till the sea claims it back.

That's very 'deep' for a monday morning