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Discussion Starter #1
Just putting together a teaching plan for an entry level trimix course, and just wondered what i should and should not cover, and when is too much?!!?

The topics im planning on covering:

1. Taking dive tables beyond recreational level, to understand how they work and how they where developed?
2. Understanding computer based dive planning and how to use?
3. The basics theory about trimix
4. Gear configuration and review
5. Gear marking and identification

Then in water:
1. Taking off and replacing gear in mid water
2. OOA scenarios
3. Basic skills like mask clearing etc
4. Dive leading skills
5. Review of DSMB deployment, and being able to hold a deco stop!?

What else? or do you think thats too much or am i missing something!?!

N


5.
 

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Muppet
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350 Posts
Deco theory: different models etc...
Gas calcs
Diving accidents
Trim
Valve drill
Gas switch
Analyzing gas

Just some things that came to mind
 

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你好。请关灯!
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801 Posts
Does your agency not tell you what should be in the course..? :confused:

I did the BSAC SMG course recently. There were a lot of things in there (particularly regarding skills) that personally, I'd have liked to see done in the Advanced Nitrox course. To me it would be sensible for Advanced Nitrox to be more practical (stage remove-replace, gas switch, multi-stop deco run-times, etc).

Practical skills should be reviewed in entry-level trimix, imho - not introduced for the first time. I wanted a _lot_ more theory in the SMG:
- more detail re M-values, etc. ie wtf are all the configuration settings in V-Planner?! (In general terms to suit any software; SMG supports other software that I can't run!)
- what qualifies any (non-medical) diver to change these settings (seemingly) arbitrarily?!

I've read up on these things since. But all trimix divers should be taught them, right..?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Dave,, yehh thats my point,,, you get given "requirements" and what should be taught, but then there's "adding value" and turning a course from being "just another course" to, "wow, we really learnt something on that course.. " im aiming for the latter, but without going overboard,,

i mean, with that, it would seem impractical to explain the difference between how the various tables came into existence,,, but i think it would make sense to explain the difference between bubble models and slab models, explaining what GF's and Conservation factors are?!? but is that too much info!?!

hence,, also, wondering if getting people familiar with trapezes is a good task to do?! as i'd presume by this level they should already be familiar with them!!!!
 

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Nigel Hewitt
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7,142 Posts
Accurate stop holding
Gas planning
Accurate stop holding
Gas marking
Accurate stop holding
Gas swapping
Accurate stop holding

To many courses are padded out with stuff that's good to know, easy to teach but off topic.

And I know teaching Accurate stop holding is a bitch which is why most instructors just tell you you're doing it wrong and wait for it to magically correct itself.
 

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MIFLEX DIR = "Did It Rupture"??
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Thanks Dave,, yehh thats my point,,, you get given "requirements" and what should be taught, but then there's "adding value" and turning a course from being "just another course" to, "wow, we really learnt something on that course.. " im aiming for the latter, but without going overboard,,

i mean, with that, it would seem impractical to explain the difference between how the various tables came into existence,,, but i think it would make sense to explain the difference between bubble models and slab models, explaining what GF's and Conservation factors are?!? but is that too much info!?!

hence,, also, wondering if getting people familiar with trapezes is a good task to do?! as i'd presume by this level they should already be familiar with them!!!!
To be honest Neil, at Trimix level I think it is far better to start to have a good grasp of the theory behind the deco models and Gradient factors (so as to be able to make informed decisions in times of need) than learning how to "use" a deco trapeze.

I also think that going over basics again (gas sharing, lost gas strategies, dive planning, O2 toxicity etc) are far more important that "taking off and replacing gear in mid water" which, I can't see an upside to but can see lots of down sides. (Unless you are talking about stage bottles).

Got to say that your initial post seems to suggest that either your agency has no particular requirements in what they expect to be taught on a trimix course or you are changing their recommendations so much that the content also changes significantly....not sure if that is a good thing?

Which agency?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
i say nothing ;-)

as it actually involves 3 different trianing agencies, possibly and arguably 4.....

But fair enough,, seems like more emphasis on getting accross the theory, and going over the basics, and just getting them to nail those stops, and nailing the gas switching.... To be honest, that what i thought myself,, but,, a conversation with a more experienced instructor was pushing me towards dumbing down the theory, and focussing more on some of the other skills... hence the question..

Thanks everyone..

N
 

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GUE Instructor
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9,260 Posts
Accurate stop holding
Gas planning
Accurate stop holding
Gas marking
Accurate stop holding
Gas swapping
Accurate stop holding

To many courses are padded out with stuff that's good to know, easy to teach but off topic.

And I know teaching Accurate stop holding is a bitch which is why most instructors just tell you you're doing it wrong and wait for it to magically correct itself.
Awesome reply, that sums it up nicely for me.
 

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give me convenience
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I recommend sending extra reading material on the theory you want to cover to the students before the course. If they prepare in advance on the theory you can then focus on drawing out the finer learning points only on the course in the academic sessions and leave yourself more in water time for skills.

Best

Kev
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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15,343 Posts
To me Intro to trimix is the critical trimix course where you learn how to dive deep properly. Full trimix is just a review of skills and an assessment of whether or not your ready to push what you have learned into deeper water. It is essential that core skills are taught on the entry level mix course.


1: An introduction to trimix and planning mixed gas dives

2: Equipment requirements and considerations across a likely range of diving conditions: low vis diving, accidental overhead diving, free ascents, SMB ascents, deco traipse, static line ascent

3: Redundancy and emergency planning using multiple tanks

4: Equipment configuration to facilitate the above

5: Considerations of deep diving with a buddy

6: Dive planning for depth and mixed gas (deco, trim, buoyancy control, stops etc should have been covered under Decompression procedures) I am specifically talking about considerations of depth and mixed gas in terms of effects of being deep, safety margins and emergency procedures.

7: Mental preparation for a deep dive. Managing depth stress in yourself and in your buddy

8: Communication with a buddy in the water.

9: Managing in water emergency's and post dive emergencies including missed decompression procedures and high PP02 procedures.

10: Practical and mental considerations of extended decompresion

11: Basic open water line skills


IN WATER SKILLS

1: Review of basic skills: Buoyancy, trim, tank management, basic safety drills.

2: Emergency drills: OOA, Entanglement, Entrapment, lost primary computer, lost ascent line, lost SMB and reel, lost decompression gas, free ascents, equipment management of all items carried or stowed in pockets including Assembly and deployment of SMBs mid water, use of yellow SMB and drop tanks, lost mask mid water

3: Buddy skills and communication under water practical review

4: Open water line skills

5: Emergency rescue and DCI injury skills practical review

6: Practical demonstration of extended decompresion issues.


ATB

Mark
 
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Making God laugh...
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i say nothing ;-)

as it actually involves 3 different trianing agencies, possibly and arguably 4.....

But fair enough,, seems like more emphasis on getting accross the theory, and going over the basics, and just getting them to nail those stops, and nailing the gas switching.... To be honest, that what i thought myself,, but,, a conversation with a more experienced instructor was pushing me towards dumbing down the theory, and focussing more on some of the other skills... hence the question..

Thanks everyone..

N
Are you planning on starting your own training agency or shouldn't you be following the syllabus of that in which you are qualified? I know TDI are a little "loose" with content, allowing their instructors some flexibility but surely you cannot add or subtract from that!

Regards

Stevie H
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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What depth is Entry Level Trimix to you? Reason I ask is because if it's two deco gases as opposed to one, then you need a very different level of rigour.
HTH
Mal


TDI was 18% Mix 60m max with as many deco gas as you like. I did some 60m max dives with two deco stages on my course.


ATB

Mark
 

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The worlds slowest sailor.
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its nice to have some flexability in the course.

if the students have met the minimum requirements and there is time left on the course -give them as much as they are happy with.
 

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A Moderate from 04/01/07-24/12/12
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TDI was 18% Mix 60m max with as many deco gas as you like. I did some 60m max dives with two deco stages on my course.


ATB

Mark
Mine was a 2 deco gas (up to 100%), 18% min O2 in back gas, 60m Max depth with TDI too.

With GUE it was a single deco gas (up to 100% O2), 18% min O2 content in back gas, 50m- ish max depth

Managing multiple deco gases needs a different approach as does managing sub 21% O2

Mal
 

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TDI Instructor Trainer
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The TDI standards state the skills below MUST be taught on the course. If you focus on teaching these really well than you don't need much else. For example, item 1 - Good buddy/team skills is a huge area. Similarly, as Mal says above, 'Competence managing two stage cylinders' requires a major area and has a lot of subtle factors that can provide any number of teaching opportunities.

The only additional things I add are intended to help students achieve one of the following. This is where you create the difference between an OK course and a great course. It's not what you teach, it's how you teach it.

TDI Trimix - Required Skill Performance
1. Show good awareness of buddy and other team members through communications, proximity and
team oriented dive practices
2. Demonstrate competence managing two stage cylinders (either two deco gas or one deco and extra
bottom gas) including drop and recovery while maintaining position in the water column
3. Demonstrate ability to confirm gas switches at depth with buddy/team members
4. Demonstrate lift bag deployment from depth and use of bag as back-up buoyancy device
5. Demonstrate air-sharing ascent from depth while one member of buddy team is without mask
6. Create contingency decompression schedule after simulated loss of decompression gas
7. Demonstrate controlled ascent with toxed diver including surface tow at least 30 meters with gear
removal on surface (in water too deep to stand in)
8. Complete a horizontal breath-hold swim at depth for 15 meters with mask off or blacked out
9. Properly execute the planned dive within all pre-determined limits.
10. Demonstrate the proper navigational techniques for the specific dive.
11. On two (2) of the dives, demonstrate an ascent with ascent reel and lift bag and perform staged
decompression
12. Demonstrate the proper procedures for switching and isolating a malfunctioning primary
regulator. (This exercise should not be practiced deeper than forty (40) msw) / one hundred thirty
(130) fsw
13. Demonstrate buoyancy control (ability to hover at fixed position in water column without moving
hands or feet)
 

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Jesus don't want me for a sunbeam
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13,407 Posts
One thing that I've noticed through diving and helping out on mix courses in the past is that what is often weakest is basic skills. These are the things which combined with depth or a ceiling can really raise stress levels. If the absolute basics of diving are totally second nature then the big stuff becomes less of a worry. Communication is a very under-related skill, it is one of the key parts of any plan and often where people come unstuck. When you read a lot of the incidents reported on here they are down to some very basic failures and people punching above their weight. Know your limits and know what you need to learn. The people that I've trusted most are the ones with the best basic skills and in-water comfort.

I'm a bit wary of comments like teaching holding a stop. That should not be taught on a mix course, that should be an assumed skill. If someone can't hold a stop then they don't have the experience to do mix, I would hope that someone considering the course had already done some deco diving. If they have difficulty with stops then they really need to question where their diving is in relation to their ability, it's way too late to be teaching buoyancy control. Personally, I'd like to see a return to the way things were in the early/mid 90's when I did my gas training, you had to a. demonstrate why you wanted to do it enough to convince an instructor that you should be on the course and b. demonstrate that you already have a decent level of skill. At the risk of sounding a bit arrogant, I've seen a lot of divers go through courses in the last few years that really should not be there. Passing the course and having the ability are two completely different things and there are a hell of a lot more badge collectors now as well.

If you want to add value to the course then produce divers that are able to do the dives that the ticket says. Better pre-assessments, send away the ones that aren't ready with some goals to aim for. Don't be afraid to fail people. If better divers but less numbers make it through your course then you have added value, it just might not be financially viable. Depends what's more important.

Cheers,

Stuart
 

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Discussion Starter #18
some very very very good points there,,, all duly noted, thanks for this... has made me think / re-consider how i was planning on teaching some of these skills...

R

N
 

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Aquanauts tea boy & GUE instructor
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May I suggest speaking to these guys, Liam Allen is superb technical diver and instructor and at least in the same time zone (nearly)

Scuba Diving & Dive Courses in Sydney | Bondi PADI Dive Centre

Just so you can build up a picture of what could be in an 'entry level' mix course, I thought this was an important factor from the tec 1 course and related to Not Deads comment:

19.Demonstrate good buoyancy and trim, i.e. approximate reference maximum of 20 degrees off horizontal while remaining within 3 feet/1 meter of a target depth. Frequency of buoyancy variation and the divers control of their buoyancy and trim are important evaluation criteria.
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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May I suggest speaking to these guys, Liam Allen is superb technical diver and instructor and at least in the same time zone (nearly)

Scuba Diving & Dive Courses in Sydney | Bondi PADI Dive Centre

Just so you can build up a picture of what could be in an 'entry level' mix course, I thought this was an important factor from the tec 1 course and related to Not Deads comment:

19.Demonstrate good buoyancy and trim, i.e. approximate reference maximum of 20 degrees off horizontal while remaining within 3 feet/1 meter of a target depth. Frequency of buoyancy variation and the divers control of their buoyancy and trim are important evaluation criteria.

I have to say I find all this trim and boyancy stuff to be of very little relevance to exicuting a safe trimix dive. I have dived with plenty of vastly experianced and acomplished trimix divers who couldent hold a stop without a SMB and reel and think "good trim" is a horny looking bird.

Some of them look like sacks of spanners in the water but they are the people id put at the top of the list that id want beside me if anything went wrong at depth.


Trimix diving isnt cave diving. Trim and free holding stops are nice skills to have especialy for impresing other divers, but they arnt reely all that critical for wreck diving unless your planning on going inside one. I am struggling to see why so many think its high up on the list.


ATB

Mark
 
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