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Ginger, Irish, sometimes stroppy
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Hi all

Having benefited greatly from YD over the past few months and enjoyed one holiday and hopefully more to come from this community a question came to mind.

Will YD ever become a more formal/real world dving club?

With the apparent level of attendance at trips and events there appears to be quite a committed bunch of people who are diving the YD way. The range of experience goes from novices through to instructors, from foreign visitors to boat owners.

So can people imagine YD expanding and having scheduled meetings, running training courses, negotiating for reduced prices from shops and holiday companies? Would you pay a membership fee in order to benefit from this? Which organisation should it be affiliated to? PADI, BSAC, GUE, SSA, SSAC, YDADISAC?

Just curious what you guys see as YD in 5 years time

Cheers

Conor
 

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Ginger, Irish, sometimes stroppy
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
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That was kind of the question, would there be any?

Examples could be access to training, cheaper equipment or hols maybe.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (camdiver @ Dec. 17 2003,11:24)]So can people imagine YD expanding and having scheduled meetings,
Oh no...  
 Meetings mean committees and stuff


anyone who's ever sat on a dive club committee such as Paul Oliver, Paul Beal or myself is now holding their head in their hands and probably gnashing their teeth.
As one guy put it to me "what's the definition of a camel?"
"A horse designed by a commiteee !"

I'm sure if Jay said he needed some income to keep YD running it'd be no problem to have voluntary "subs" but I think part of YD's success is it's informality

Steve
(BSAC branch 9155 Chairman for two years, Training Officer for one year and briefly DO before getting royally f***ed off with meetings and politics )
 

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Count your blessings - I'm club secretary this year
 

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To dive or not to dive - that's not even an option
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I think Conor has a good point. There are benafits of both types of "club", YD is in a position that it can pick what it wants from both.

E.G. Trips can be organised, discounts on holidays through volume could be obtained, web links to other sites could generate some income to keep the site running without it becoming a business. As for the "real world" side of things, much of the above is "real world", surely meeting others of a like mind and going diving is the whole point?

I also think that organisations and training are hot potatoes, it is best left for members to use YD as experience and guidance without the politics these inevitably bring. I am both PADI and BSAC qualified so can see the merits of both. I honestly believe there is little difference between them or most other training agencies regarding actual diving skills, what is tought is very similar. The biggest single factor in how good a diver may be is how good do they want to be? It is personal choice and commitment. Beggining to ramble so I'll stop there.

 

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Ginger, Irish, sometimes stroppy
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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I guess I was asking for speculation, not suggesting a definite path.

You are right about meetings etc, but could you imagaine a time when YD people realise that a percentage of them are arranging hols through the same company and try to obtain a reduction? Could you imagine a time when we have a courses list where people who all want to do similar training get together with an instructor on the board and a training seesion/course is arranged? This may not be a certification course as such, but maybe just a case of 10 new divers all saying they would like to buy drysuits and SMBs so could someone take the time out to show them how to use the new kit.

Just a bit of new years speculation
 

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Jonah
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (camdiver @ Dec. 17 2003,12:58)]Could you imagine a time when we have a courses list where people who all want to do similar training get together with an instructor on the board and a training seesion/course is arranged? This may not be a certification course as such, but maybe just a case of 10 new divers all saying they would like to buy drysuits and SMBs so could someone take the time out to show them how to use the new kit.
There's nothing to stop that happening now; in fact something similar is going on over on UKRS (rescue diver course) without them being a club either.

Why not try setting something up?
 

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True, but that IS being run commercially as a PADI-type course.

(Not that I'm getting paid for volunteering to be a casualty for it, sadly)

But I do recall a fair number of people meeting up with more experienced bods and getting informally taught a few skills..

Maybe a facility could be set up where people state their location and what training they require, and people willing to supply that training make themselves known..?
 

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A short fat well off crap cave diver. Likes wrecks
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Good God NO

That way lays disaster,

Meetings, comities, rules, officious [email protected] running the show, cliques, personality clashes, disputes over money need I go on.

I am sure most club divers will start to recognise a few of the above. The YD gigs appear to work well so lets KISS.

ATB

Mark Chase
 

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Ginger, Irish, sometimes stroppy
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
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Rather than risk us going down the path of discussing meetings to death, by means of a meta-meeting, can I just clarify something?

When I mentioned regular meetings, substitute the word gatherings? I never mentioned commitees. These gatherings would include social and diving events etc

Have a think about how you think YD might evolve
 

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<font color='#000080'>Where will YD be in 5 years? much larger, but with the same atmosphere....I like the informality of it, and any trips that get organised just get organised!

I WOULD be willing to pay dues, just to keep it going, no reason for Jay to carry the full expense. If it should come to any financial trouble, I for one would definitely pitch in to keep it going. I think that most of here would.

moray (logged in wrong again)
 

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As many of you have picked up, the downsides of formalising ourselves as a 'club' vastly outweigh the benefits of YD being as it is. Things like public liability insurance, secretaries, chairmen etc are all things I personally would want little to do with. Our members frequently do organise trips, we are able to 'negotiate' group prices for trips, we have access to quality instructors from all agencies, many of whom do offer preferential rates to YD members.

What we DON'T do is organise and attend AGMs, we DON'T have any issues about cash and funding, we DON'T need any public liability insurance, we DON'T need to 'pussy-foot' around pleasing sponsers (equipment manufacturors / agencies etc) and we DON'T hold ballots every five minutes to decide what our next step should be.

Where will YD be in 5 years? Who knows - maybe it will be out of my hands, maybe it will have disappeared into the ether and maybe, just maybe ...










































WE'LL HAVE TAKEN OVER THE WORLD!!! MMMWWWAHHHHH!
 

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old time
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<font color='#0000FF'>MARK CHASE FOR YD ONLINE DIVE CLUB FOR


Social secretary


another poll coming on i think
 

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YD's strength for me lies in the fact that it is NOT a Club type organisation. Whatever tab you may wish to label it with Virtual Club , Group etc etc. It's strength lies in the fact that we do not have Committees and all the bureaucracy and politics that from my experience innevitably results .
"We go diving" and don't spend AGM'S labouring over drivel.

As a collective I'm all for negociating discounts and already mentioned to some extent we do this with boat charter.
Be nice to get some kit discount, maybe?
?

My thoughts on YD "If it ain't broke don't mend it"
 

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<font color='#000080'>Hear Hear.
I'm only just getting out of therapy after the wife and I virtually ran our last club between us for the last 18 months.
Usual rubbish committee meetings, money, conflict with club vs training gigs.
It has been really nice to be part of YD and not see any of that.
Totally agree with Mark - KISS
YD reaches the parts that other dive clubs don't reach - virtual or otherwise.
 

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Street Cleansing Operative
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<font color='#000080'>Hey! Let's not go there! I'm with Stevil, Chasey and everyone else who's screaming "NO WAY!" to any kind of formality.

YD works so well because it's so easy. You want to dive - you go diving. It's that simple. Organising the odd dive, weekends away or foreign holidays is easy - I've done them all and it was no bother. It was that way because there were no rules, and you can't have a club without rules.

There's training if you want it (I'm doing a nitrox course with Chris) and if you've got the numbers the discounts on kit will always be there.

I just don't see any advantage. As many have said here and before - I'd be more than happy to pay a subscription if costs ever become an issue. I pay £5 to Friends Reunited each year and found far more friends here than on there!

Worth asking the question, but please , let's leave it as it is.
 

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Yep, all agreed with here.

Only need committees with SHARED ownership of kit, boats etc. As we dont, we dont


If ever assistance is needed for hosting costs whatever, I would suggest donations, with the donor having the option of stars or whatever under the avatar. Similar to what b3ta does if anyone goes there.

Adrian
 

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Ginger, Irish, sometimes stroppy
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Well, it looks like a concensus. I was just curious where people see it going and it looks like the answer is more of the same.

I guess the examples I gave all require it to be more organised, which is a path it looks like noone wants to go down, fair enough. I didnt think of committees etc when I posted the original message, but I see your point, it becomes inevitable.

One of the reasons I posted was that it occurred to me that one of the bigger Egyptian dive centres/ liveaboard operators has probably had enough people from YD to fill 2 boats this year, but in most cases the seperate groups were not bg enough to qualify for the discounts. If we were to approach such a company and say 20 people travelled with you last year from YD, if YD had a 5% discount then you would probably be looking at 30 or 40 next year.... that kind of thing.

But anyway, its good to see we're all happy


Conor
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>I'll be more than happy for YD to stay as it is. I have the following advise though:

* Register the YD name

* Open an account for YD. If there is any need of financial assistance it can be deposited into this account, any difference can go to the Lifeboat fund. Naturally as soon as it finances is involved it can get touchy, although it will work on levels of trust. What is the risk of a member to drop £5 in? The potential is great to help costs or/and help the lifeboat fund. I think funding would only work if it is voluntary though.

* Just have to be careful that when organising trips we don't have any 'rogue' people who could use YD to a detrimental effect.
 
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