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Just not enough dive time.
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Following on from our Stoney trip where we called the rescue boat I note that on UKDiving there has been criticism of us calling the boat. Whats the general thought on that one, soon as possible, say a minute or two after surfacing and noting your buddy hasnt appeared. It has been suggested you wait and verify they have surfaced before calling for it.

Matt
 

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Bollocks to that - if you speak to the staff at Stoney I bet they'd much prefer to launch the boat for a false alarm than drag a body out of the water. Ignore the 'holier than thou' brigade who think they know better and like nothing more than dispensing useless advice from the safety of their armchair.
 

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Hey Matt,

Link us up with a URL to this 'criticism', I'd like to read it myself. Do you mean UK Divers or UK Diving? Which site? I still can't get UK Divers to respond. Still down? Anyone?
 

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DUE CEO, Booking agent, Coffee maker & Dogsbody...
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Matt

Hesitate for a safety boat - No way, if you have the slightest thaught that there is a need then thats enough to justify it.

I don't know Stoney but if its anything like the Channel you have lots of safety crews just waiting for something to do.

Our Ex-lifeboat crew members are the quickest to call for help of the lot.

Regards

Paul
 

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UK diving

Go here, then click through Dive Sites:Inland:Stoney and you will find the critisiscm.

All I can say is that I am glad he isn't my buddy!  Just how long would it take to surface, swim to the exit, get out, trudge up the hill and search the car park before calling for help???  WHat a donkey.....
 

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Not as tall in real life
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<font color='#000080'>10 minutes no oxygen = brain death

After 4 to 6 minutes irreversable brain damage can occur.

Not a long time really is it ?

So how long does it take to swim in, get out, drop kit, search the car park..  Sod it might as well get a cup of tea and bacon sandwich.

No critisism from me for your actions Matt..

Time to go and have a look at this link I think...

Daz
 

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Matt.

Am in complete agreement with Daz's comments, and your actions. Read the link from Lou's post and could not believe the attitude of some of the post there. Suppose I must be spoilt by the higher than average content and views expressed here at YD than other forums.

In my view.... when in doubt... SHOUT.

Cheers

Mark
 

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<font color='#0000FF'>Like the other posts, I agree, utter tosh!

Any safety folk, be that at stoney or the RNLI or even the SAR squadrons, would much rather be called unnecessarily than get there too late to carry out their "raison d'etre".

same as this attitude some divers have about not breaking out the O2 because it's seen as some kind of failure if you need to administer it.

Both of the above types of people are dangerous and I wouldn't dive with either of them.

Chee-az
Steve
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (daz @ Mar. 31 2003,21:16)]10 minutes no oxygen = brain death

After 4 to 6 minutes irreversable brain damage can occur.
<font color='#0000FF'>99.99% of the time yes that's true, unless you happen to be probably the luckiest ex-diver alive, ieDr. Paul Thomas (who posts here with some regularity) who has made a slow but pretty full recovery after 10 or more minutes without air.  This is most likely due to the cold water preventing cellular degeneration.

Chee-az
steve
 

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Speaking as a inshore D class crew member, believe me its much better to get to the scene and find out your not needed due to what ever reason than to have to remove a body from the water. If you suspect a problem, CALL for help at the FIRST oppertunity. A Search and Rescue is better than a Search and Recovery. Sometimes its good to get a false alarm, It keeps you on your toes, gives good practice and training. Honestly, and I know all of our crew feel the same. When we are called out for whatever reason wether needed or not, Its not wasting our time. The lad that called the Rescue / Saftey boat done the right thing. Never mind the lad who said "it could be needed somewhere else", just remind me NEVER to allow myself or my family to dive wherever he is. Lets hope he dosn't require assistance one day, His mates might just not call for it.
 

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Matt & All!

as one of the 3 who were at the surface and called the boat!

1) I would do it again everytime, as people have said after 6 minutes, the scale of an incident increases hugely.

2) the boat is therefore safety cover at stoney and was already manned and in shouting distance, so to do as we did, which was to make the safety cover aware of the potential situation, seems to me the most effective and potentially safe option. I have been working with safety and rescue services on and off for the last 20 years and as people have said they all like to be given an early warning in preference to recovering a body!

3) Unusually for me, I have been keeping my gob shut and just reading some of the mail and replies here at YD and elsewhere. What is good here is that people overall are supportive in both their points but also in the general review of the dive.

I thought for me, it was a good little wake up call, I did surface after loosing my buddy and spent 5 minutes looking for him prior to meeting Matt and Nigel, however, it was a good 3 to 4 minutes before I noticed he was missing and was'nt with us! (ie.still buggering about in the helicopter!)


and I think part of it was due to becoming lax in my own dive planning with my buddy (Ben) cos I knew I was diving with solid buddies who were competent and I was at a familiar site, combined with the informal bit of the 4 of us will jump in and swim out and do the staingarth. I also think its easy to forget the importance of a good Buddy check and disagree with Ben! We all take responsibility for ourselves and our own diving, but as part of that we need to remember few if any of us are infallible and so make mistakes.. any system that helps to reduce those or the potential for those is worth keeping with.. Mr cock-up can visit at any point and does, its why planes end up sticking out of mountains or crashes occurr and reading Divernet it has obviously (human error) contributed to recent diving accidents.

In the Outdoor industry and in other places..We have a near miss procedure, which is just a means of reviewing an incident that could have been more serious and untangling the learning from it. The reviews work best when people arent on the defensive and are in an atmosphere where they feel supported to be open and Honest..

I think the posts on YD have encouraged that and long may it remain so.. I think (My opinion) that it could be one of the most useful functions of a dive forum, Give people the chance to learn from real life incidents or occurences and to improve their knowledge and learning. Maybe it may save a life or at the least an emergency. Research from Cave diving proves that accident analysis is one of the most effective ways of improving safety. (you do need a supportive arena for that rather than a blame culture or a score points off people attitude!)

My final point to share with you all was passed on to me by an ancient mariner some years ago, whilst I was in the navy! which was to remember that a Dick in a wet suit maybe a diver but he's still a Dick!!  - It appears that some dive forums are full of them, either wanting to create an argument to feed their ego's or to prove points in order to look good for their mates... I read the crap their infrequently and I frankly don't give a rats arse.. what they have to say!!  

I hope YD will continue to be a Divers' Forum made up of people who like a laugh along with the realisation that weve all got something to share or to learn!

P.S> Matt, Ben & Nige are all top Blokes in my book and I'll dive with them any time (though I try not to follow Ben anywhere, as he is to navigation wot Cyril Smith is to hang gliding development!)

It was great to meet Ali and his mate and Ali 'the torch is tops! thanks very much'....
 
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